Been watching bareknuckle Lethwei recently, makes most MMA look like a form of modern dance

TheMaster said:
Lethwei will get better competition as it evolves and the level will become better.
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I hope it doesnt. Reviving someone from a KO to keep fighting is really fuckin stupid.
 
It's cool for sure. dudes are some warriors.

I'd rather just watch kickboxing or MT though. higher skill level and you still see plenty of action fights. the "omg they aren't protecting their hands makes it better" thing doesn't do anything for boxing or this IMO.
 
thoughtsone said:
It's a fun watch but it is CTE city. And some of these guys striking isn't very slick it's more like mashing the A button in street fighter. I watch it when it's on. I do prefer MMA and Muay Thai over this though.

I think most MMA, kickboxers, Muay Thai and boxees are just more skilled overall. But these guys are tough.

But the let the guy recover from a ko rule is way to much.
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Wouldn't spamming the A button be spamming light kick? This is more like spammin heavy punch
 
Cool TS thanks. Thanks other posters as well. Fun to watch. Interesting to see a UFC vet get outclassed like that.
 
There is also cool new russian bare knuckle promotion, Top Dog, they have some cool fights
 
Tracav said:
I like Cyrus but he got handled by Leduc in their fight, he was just not used to Lethwei rules.
Cyrus might also be out for a while, wish him the best...
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Cyrus won a couple Lethwei belts and fought the best Lethwei had to offer. no shame in losing to one of the best ever.

That's like saying Aldo got handled by Max so he's not worth anyone to bring up.

Dont be a hater, dude has plenty of amazing fights on YouTube and has finished legendary Lethwei fighters.

But why did you say he will be out for a while?? I know he got shot n what not but I thought he recovered

Leduc is a beast tho
 
HHJ said:
No,it wasnt,although it was certainly part of their marketing at the time.
Was supposed to be a showcase of jiujitsu's superiority over other styles,and was a revelation in the martial arts world. The more of them that were done,the more skilled competitors came to compete.
Basically what didnt and wont happen with Lethwei.
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yeah, it was supposed to show jiujitsu superiority against "shitty fighters nobody cares about, with rules way way less safe than they ever have to be,so that people will actuallty watch this garbage"

for MMA to even be anywhere near what it is the UFC had to be bought by the Fertittas. the Gracies wouldn't have changed it, they came from a violent culture of jiu jitsu gangs and shit and they WANTED the savagery to prove jiu jitsu's superiority. UFC was lightweight shit compared to what was going down on the sands of the Copacabana.

if the Fertittas bought Lethwei, they'd change it too. but my original point is, the more rules you add the less fighting it becomes and the more sport, and that's fine and dandy but it's not going to be as effective on the streets, and people will begin teaching watered down versions of MMA, and eventually we'll be right back to where we were when UFC 1st came out, with a bunch of ineffective martial arts being taught by people with no real experience, being treated as the "end all be all" to self defense and fighting.
 
TheMaster said:
The difference is Lethwei will never descend to becoming a point fighting stall fest like alot of MMA has become, and abominations like Romero - Izzy can never happen.
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MMA hasn't become a point fighting stall fest...come on now. It has the occasional terrible fight between two gun shy fighters, but these are a tiny fraction of the top level fights. You do get some wall and stalling, but that's entirely due to the cage. There are boring contests in every sport. Hockey, boxing, basketball, football, baseball...it happens. Doesn't make people stop watching sports. And the word sports is very important, because that's totally different from a freak show or some derivate of one of those sports. They could have a separate hockey league without hats, or two pucks on the ice, or whatever, so it would be more brutal, or there would be more goals (I know this is a totally stupid comparison, but still, you get the point). Could be basketball with trampolines so players can jump even higher, or football with fights allowed...whatever.

But people wouldn't watch that. Plain and simple, even if there's more action, people will still want to watch the real thing, the one they're accustomed to, the one with a history, the one where the best talent is, in their mind.

TheMaster said:
The early UFC's had mcdogo hobbyists like Harold Howard competing, they were not even amateur level MMA against Brazil's finest.
Lethwei will get better competition as it evolves and the level will become better.
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You have to look at how much time it took for MMA to really take off. And what kind of obstacles were in its way all along. Of course Lethwei could evolve both in terms of history and competition. But just like MMA that would probably mean it would become a totally different sport altogether.

I just don't think a lot of people share the same enthusiasm about it as you do.
 
God i hope they don't bring back robin black to commentate
 
Pilo said:
MMA hasn't become a point fighting stall fest...come on now. It has the occasional terrible fight between two gun shy fighters, but these are a tiny fraction of the top level fights. You do get some wall and stalling, but that's entirely due to the cage. There are boring contests in every sport. Hockey, boxing, basketball, football, baseball...it happens. Doesn't make people stop watching sports. And the word sports is very important, because that's totally different from a freak show or some derivate of one of those sports. They could have a separate hockey league without hats, or two pucks on the ice, or whatever, so it would be more brutal, or there would be more goals (I know this is a totally stupid comparison, but still, you get the point). Could be basketball with trampolines so players can jump even higher, or football with fights allowed...whatever.

But people wouldn't watch that. Plain and simple, even if there's more action, people will still want to watch the real thing, the one they're accustomed to, the one with a history, the one where the best talent is, in their mind.



You have to look at how much time it took for MMA to really take off. And what kind of obstacles were in its way all along. Of course Lethwei could evolve both in terms of history and competition. But just like MMA that would probably mean it would become a totally different sport altogether.

I just don't think a lot of people share the same enthusiasm about it as you do.
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Not all MMA, but a sizeable amount is point fighting and/or hugfest. The best indicator of this is that the average casual just does not care to watch a lower down the card MMA fight, unless it is features more standup guys. This was not true of the early UFC's.

That is largely because standup is intrinsically more appealing to most people and takes less knowledge to 'understand'. This is why boxing is and was always mora mainstream than mma can ever be. Even if there is grappling heavy focus, the rawness of early UFC's and brutal real fight vibe apealed to casuals which had been seriously watered down.

So Lethwei has an advantage in that, whether u are a seasoned fan or brand new to it, you can 'get it' pretty much straight away which is not that case at all for MMA.

In other words a casual can watch and enjoy a Lethwei undercard but usually cares little to watch an undercard of MMA.

This fact should not be dismissed.

If Lethwei gets taken up by say someone like Fertita's it could easily get as popular as mma with correct promotion. It would be much slicker with nicer packaging, and they would drop the 'revive after being counted out' rule, and u have a marketable, instantly appealing 'ultimate brutal standup' sport.
 
i'm diggin lethwei so far. it's a nice addition to the mma, thai boxing, sport wrestling video mix i've been watching.
 
TheMaster said:
Not all MMA, but a sizeable amount is point fighting and/or hugfest. The best indicator of this is that the average casual just does not care to watch a lower down the card MMA fight, unless it is features more standup guys. This was not true of the early UFC's.

That is largely because standup is intrinsically more appealing to most people and takes less knowledge to 'understand'. This is why boxing is and was always mora mainstream than mma can ever be. Even if there is grappling heavy focus, the rawness of early UFC's and brutal real fight vibe apealed to casuals which had been seriously watered down.

So Lethwei has an advantage in that, whether u are a seasoned fan or brand new to it, you can 'get it' pretty much straight away which is not that case at all for MMA.

In other words a casual can watch and enjoy a Lethwei undercard but usually cares little to watch an undercard of MMA.

This fact should not be dismissed.

If Lethwei gets taken up by say someone like Fertita's it could easily get as popular as mma with correct promotion. It would be much slicker with nicer packaging, and they would drop the 'revive after being counted out' rule, and u have a marketable, instantly appealing 'ultimate brutal standup' sport.
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Again, those are very good points you got there. And I know it's true to a certain extent, but I think the opposite is also true to some extent as well. The UFC events that I attended live were all in Montréal, where people are very, very enthusiastic about the UFC coming, since it doesn't happen so often. My experience tells me that the stadium was packed even during the undercard, despite the fact that there might have been quite a few empty seats during the first and second fights. But those were all pay per view cards too.

But in Vegas, or on a Fight Night, it is different. Is that because there are more casual fans there, or because that specific undercard is of lesser interest, or because people in Vegas are mostly visiting and attending a UFC event is just one slot in their night out? There's a bunch of different factors.

Your analysis is based mostly off of casuals, which is an indicator for sure, and a good one too, since these are the eyeballs you're trying to consistently attract towards the sport.

But I suppose any investor would like to have actual metrics backing those things you said, or those things I'm about to say.

At this point, MMA is at a different stage, and has a solid fan base worldwide, which is the fruit of decades of promotion, events being held around the world, marketing, reality TV, etc.

Let's look back at the fighters that were the "moving parts" of modern day UFC.

GSP. That guy used to be their number one star, their number one PPV draw, and legions of casual fans were calling that guy "boring", saying he "was not a finisher", etc. he was still their biggest star.

Then it was Brock Lesnar who, again, did finish a couple guys, but whose appeal was certainly more about how big he was, and based on the fact that he was coming from the WWE.

There was also Ronda, who made a name out of finishing weak competition in 15 seconds. People booed Andrei Arlovski at UFC 55 when he KO'd Paul Buentello with the first punch he threw. I don't blame them...a 7 second main event just doesn't really feel like a main event at all.

And now, it's McGregor, who does, in fact, sting a lot of people with his left hand, but let's be honest, that guy became the star that he is today because of his trash talking abilities, his looks and flashy apparel, and the never-before-seen endorsement of UFC promotion that he is being granted.

So what's my point here? The fights themselves, or their entertainment value were not the selling factor to casuals, and still aren't. At first, it was all about how "believable" the product is as a sport, that's what turned eyeballs towards MMA.

Look at these four fighters, and how the timing was perfect for them to shine :

-GSP was the perfect ambassador to change people's minds that this was just human cockfighting, as they saw a real athlete in him, and not just some thug knocking bums out in a cage;

-Brock Lesnar was the perfect symbol that MMA had become main stream, and gave it that extra push that it needed to show everyone that it was here to stay, with a huge superstar crossing over and choosing MMA over WWE;

-Ronda was the perfect figure for people to take WMMA seriously, as she looked unstoppable, was a former olympian, was undefeated, and was tearing girls up ;

-McGregor is the new prototype of MMA superstar, even crossing into boxing against Floyd Mayweather, showboating with flashy cars, apparel, and claiming that be makes dozens of millions, aka "boxing superstar money", with a nonstop social media presence and trash talk.

So, maybe Dave Leduc is Lethwei's GSP, who knows? Or maybe it's a different path for lethwei to undertake, since people are accustomed to MMA, and it's part of the environment now. Which brings me back to my initial argument: Lethwei would probably only attract the portion of existing MMA fans who want more brutality.

As for the Fertittas, I'm sure these guys could turn a pile of monkey crap into something highly sellable. But I think they'd have to be convinced first, and that's the tricky part.

Sorry for the long post, but that's an interesting discussion we're having.

Cheers!
 
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