Been watching a lot of BJJ vids, got me wondering about: Dean Lister and Rener Gracie

[Adamant]

A lot of Jocko's videos shows him rolling with and talking about Dean Lister and Dean sounds like an absolute monster on the ground. Jocko is a big powerful black belt but he's always saying how he can never do certain things to Dean because Dean is just way, way, way too good. You see Dean actually roll and explain things and the dude does seem like a legit monster. 4th degree black belt in BJJ, black belt in Luta Livre. 3x ADCC world champion.

On the flip side, a lot of Rener's videos shows him talking and explaining the intricacies of BJJ down to the smallest detail, and then he actually rolls and it looks completly effortless for him. One video showed him rolling with 4 Korean national champion BJJ black belts and he sub'd them all one after the other like it was no problem. 5th degree black belt in BJJ.

So it got me thinking.... if Dean and Rener had a friendly roll with the agreement that it was going to be no time limit, no points, go until submission... who wins? Who do you put your money on? (Assuming both are injury free at the time of the roll)

 

[EndlessCritic]

dean lister via being a fire hydrant

 

[HunterAcosta]

Dean

 

[maximus__]

A lot of Jocko's videos shows him rolling with and talking about Dean Lister and Dean sounds like an absolute monster on the ground. Jocko is a big powerful black belt but he's always saying how he can never do certain things to Dean because Dean is just way, way, way too good. You see Dean actually roll and explain things and the dude does seem like a legit monster. 4th degree black belt in BJJ, black belt in Luta Livre. 3x ADCC world champion.

On the flip side, a lot of Rener's videos shows him talking and explaining the intricacies of BJJ down to the smallest detail, and then he actually rolls and it looks completly effortless for him. One video showed him rolling with 4 Korean national champion BJJ black belts and he sub'd them all one after the other like it was no problem. 5th degree black belt in BJJ.

So it got me thinking.... if Dean and Rener had a friendly roll with the agreement that it was going to be no time limit, no points, go until submission... who wins? Who do you put your money on? (Assuming both are injury free at the time of the roll)

Lister is a monster. Rener is good but below that level.

Dean hadn't been tapped for like 10 years until he ran into Josh Barnett.


Josh Barnett beat Ryron Gracie for a comparison via a leglock attempt.




Lister was a leg lock monster before it was cool.


Here's Jocko vs Monson back in 2005 because it's pretty cool.


Apparently this was in an overtime or something and they both had been grappling for ages.

 

[shunyata]

Dean by a longshot.

 

[Nathan LaMontagne]

Dean by whatever he wants.

As if Rener of all people would ever put up video of himself struggling or getting whomped. He's like a politician.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Gracie bjj is a brand first. Not to say they're bad at all. Just that their image is very important to them. If the image of "real bjj" is damaged then it hurts the bottom dollar.

 

[TheMaster]

On the flip side, a lot of Rener's videos shows him talking and explaining the intricacies of BJJ down to the smallest detail, and then he actually rolls and it looks completly effortless for him. One video showed him rolling with 4 Korean national champion BJJ black belts and he sub'd them all one after the other like it was no problem. 5th degree black belt in BJJ.

This isn't real...more due to hespect. Imagine being a Korean BJJ champion and then trying to tap a Gracie, it would be seen as disrespect. Unless it's competition it doesn't count.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

Lister is a monster. Rener is good but below that level.

Dean hadn't been tapped for like 10 years until he ran into Josh Barnett.


Josh Barnett beat Ryron Gracie for a comparison via a leglock attempt.




Lister was a leg lock monster before it was cool.


Here's Jocko vs Monson back in 2005 because it's pretty cool.


Apparently this was in an overtime or something and they both had been grappling for ages.

Not particularly related to the thread, but my old coach David Terrell was a very similar grappler to Lister and actually had a win over him -- just well rounded everywhere with strong leg locks and could ride you like a surfboard if they pass your guard.

 

[mattemate]

Good grief. You can't be serious.
Dean, in the ADCC, was a champion THREE TIMES, once in open weight, three times in -99kg, won a silver at ADCC in -99kg, won the superfight against Jean Jacques Machado, and has a submission victory of Rodolfo. GTFO. Rener can't carry his jockstrap.

 

[shunyata]

Good grief. You can't be serious.
Dean, in the ADCC, was a champion THREE TIMES, once in open weight, three times in -99kg, won a silver at ADCC in -99kg, won the superfight against Jean Jacques Machado, and has a submission victory of Rodolfo. GTFO. Rener can't carry his jockstrap.

Levels to this shit, there are.

 

[mattemate]

A lot of Jocko's videos shows him rolling with and talking about Dean Lister and Dean sounds like an absolute monster on the ground. Jocko is a big powerful black belt but he's always saying how he can never do certain things to Dean because Dean is just way, way, way too good. You see Dean actually roll and explain things and the dude does seem like a legit monster. 4th degree black belt in BJJ, black belt in Luta Livre. 3x ADCC world champion.

On the flip side, a lot of Rener's videos shows him talking and explaining the intricacies of BJJ down to the smallest detail, and then he actually rolls and it looks completly effortless for him. One video showed him rolling with 4 Korean national champion BJJ black belts and he sub'd them all one after the other like it was no problem. 5th degree black belt in BJJ.

So it got me thinking.... if Dean and Rener had a friendly roll with the agreement that it was going to be no time limit, no points, go until submission... who wins? Who do you put your money on? (Assuming both are injury free at the time of the roll)

Look at his entry to saddle against Rodolfo. This was WAYYYY before anyone was calling it saddle or honey-hole. Dean called it "Ultimate game over," which is what I still call it.
Rodolfo used to tap Roger on occasion in training. He's one of the only guys to ever submit Buchecha. Roger is the ONLY Gracie alive at that this point that could sub Dean, and that's probably only in the gi, and he's not gonna have an easy time with it.

Dean is one of the best to ever do it. Rener is good but mostly just a salesman.