Bas Rutten on JRE: "Takada vs Coleman was fixed"

noizer said:
i understand that you say that some people think that Pride has less sporting legitimacy but again where is the proof to support claims about fixed fights besides the Takada ones? I am not talking about questionable judging and squash matches because those happend often.

BTW Takada was in a unique position as Pride was build around him and Rickson Gracie, was the posterboy for some time and he was a frontman in the company.

To sum it up, are there more fixed fights out there? could be but frankly there is as much true and valid evidence as there is evidence about ufc bouts being fixed. None...
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I feel like we don't need evidence

Everything PRIDE did is now under suspicion because the SAME people that fixed the Takada fight were also responsible for ALL THE OTHER FIGHTS

Because of that PRIDE will always have less legitimacy

Takeda and Sakakibara who Fixed fights in PRIDE are now in charge of RIZIN and I will tell you what RIZIN has some very strange fights..after every RIZIN event people post here about one of the fights asking if it was fixed

I don't think JMMA will ever be legitimete in the same way that the UFC is but unlike a lot of people I'm totally cool with it

I feel like legitimacy would actually hurt JMMA
 
Oh my god. What is he going to reveal next? That Ken Shamrock was on steroids?
 
mraa1 said:
Every fight Takada won was fixed
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even 1 of the fights he lost ( Tamura one ) Tamura was scared shit after he knocked out Takada because Takada supposedly should have won that fight.

you can even see it in Tamura's face after he won that fight. didnt look like a happy man to me.
 
manboy<3 said:
I feel like we don't need evidence

Everything PRIDE did is now under suspicion because the SAME people that fixed the Takada fight were also responsible for ALL THE OTHER FIGHTS

Because of that PRIDE will always have less legitimacy

Takeda and Sakakibara who Fixed fights in PRIDE are now in charge of RIZIN and I will tell you what RIZIN has some very strange fights..after every RIZIN event people post here about one of the fights asking if it was fixed

I don't think JMMA will ever be legitimete in the same way that the UFC is but unlike a lot of people I'm totally cool with it

I feel like legitimacy would actually hurt JMMA
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Fair enough. i can live with this opinion altho people who shout Pride was fake need to realise that most fights where as legit as the fights we have in the UFC. a few proven ( supposedly ) fixed fights dont prove otherwise.
 
manboy<3 said:
I feel like we don't need evidence

Everything PRIDE did is now under suspicion because the SAME people that fixed the Takada fight were also responsible for ALL THE OTHER FIGHTS

Because of that PRIDE will always have less legitimacy

Takeda and Sakakibara who Fixed fights in PRIDE are now in charge of RIZIN and I will tell you what RIZIN has some very strange fights..after every RIZIN event people post here about one of the fights asking if it was fixed

I don't think JMMA will ever be legitimete in the same way that the UFC is but unlike a lot of people I'm totally cool with it

I feel like legitimacy would actually hurt JMMA
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Interesting perspective. It's always been associated with pro wrestling over there and from what I understand the entire scene in Japan pretty much grew from strong style pro wrestlers taking the style to its logical conclusion (if I'm wrong somebody pls correct me). I don't care much for the freak show fights as much as I used to nor do I like the feeding of up and comers with guys with little to no experience, but I do appreciate the production values, the fact that they still use a ring and its unique rule set.
 
mraa1 said:
Interesting perspective. It's always been associated with pro wrestling over there and from what I understand the entire scene in Japan pretty much grew from strong style pro wrestlers taking the style to its logical conclusion (if I'm wrong somebody pls correct me). I don't care much for the freak show fights as much as I used to nor do I like the feeding of up and comers with guys with little to no experience, but I do appreciate the production values, the fact that they still use a ring and its unique rule set.
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Yes that's exactly it that is the entire history of JMMA in one small paragraph

JMMA is PRO WRESTLING with the fights being for real most of the time

For example a fight can take place between two pro wrestlers in the same venue as a pro wrestling match, using a pro wrestling referee and the referee will be wearing an earpiece from which he will be taking orders on how to conduct the match from some shadowy figure who is sitting ringside

everything will be just like wrestling except that the fight will be for real this time but it is incredibley easy at any time to turn this kind of fight into a scripted one without anyone realizing

The reason a lot of us love JMMA is because of the pro wrestling elements but having those pro wrestling elements means that any fight can turn out to be a fix but that is the price we pay for the greatness that is JMMA
 
IndyCovaHart said:
Bas should just come out and blow the whistle on everything.
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There is a pretty good write-up in the book Shooters: The Toughest Men in Professional Wrestling about the Pancrase organization. Rutten claimed that he would never throw a fight, but it doesn't mean that opponents weren't asked to drop bouts to him or stay away from his weaknesses.

How come these fighters never go on JRE and talk about fixes in the UFC?
 
noizer said:
where is your proof supporting this claim? please put them in a link. The only fixed fights i am aware of are the Takada ones. did Pride have some questionable matchups and bad judging ( squash matches )? yes they did but that doesnt mean those fights where fixed.
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You're not going to find everything in a quick and easy link. Some allegations are in books.

From the book "Shooters: Toughest Men in Professional Wrestling"...When Takada was going to face Mark Kerr, rather than say "we want you to fight stand up" with the Japanese star, one of the office workers said something to the effect of "maybe you don't know, but the fans really appreciate great technique." This implied to Kerr that they didn't want him to take Takada down and bludgeon him, but to put on more of a show.

You hear about boxers carrying other boxers to certain rounds. Who wants to pay however many dollars and see someone get wiped out super fast or see a dull fight? Pro wrestling figured out early in its existence that you can give fans a show and that the wins and loses aren't the be all and end all if fans go home thinking they received their money's worth.
 
ThunderL1ps said:
You're not going to find everything in a quick and easy link. Some allegations are in books.

From the book "Shooters: Toughest Men in Professional Wrestling"...When Takada was going to face Mark Kerr, rather than say "we want you to fight stand up" with the Japanese star, one of the office workers said something to the effect of "maybe you don't know, but the fans really appreciate great technique." This implied to Kerr that they didn't want him to take Takada down and bludgeon him, but to put on more of a show.

You hear about boxers carrying other boxers to certain rounds. Who wants to pay however many dollars and see someone get wiped out super fast or see a dull fight? Pro wrestling figured out early in its existence that you can give fans a show and that the wins and loses aren't the be all and end all if fans go home thinking they received their money's worth.
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good point about books but this is once again about Takada.

Also, some office worker implying that it would be better to keep it standing is hardly evidence that suggests Pride had tons of fixed fights.

Gary Goodridge did an interview back in 2012 about fixed fights in Pride but i find his claim about 90 procent fixed in the early Pride days hard to believe but even if this was true he further claims that the more recent Pride events are all legit.

His story about Ogawa is a more believable story but then again he refused and lost anyway.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-90-percent-of-early-pride-fights-were-fixed

i never found evidence about fighters in Pride being paid to keep it standing or on the ground btw. Atleast not like Seth vs Kimbo for instance where there is some evidence available.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/seth-petruzelli-was-paid-to-stand-up
 
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Baba Ghanoush said:
Shit has been known for a long time now. There were a ton of fixed and/or influenced fights in Pride. Rampage stated he was approached by the yakuza. Alberto Del Rio admitted he was paid to keep it standing with Cro Crop and purposely eat the high kicks. Another way Pride used to influence fights were to change a fighters opponent last minute with the new opponent knowing for weeks/months in advance who they were fighting. These bits of info come from multiple sources and it's just the ones that made it to light, imagine the ones we don't know about.
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Dos caras had no choice. That fight was a minute long. He's just trying to save face for being so embarrassed.


I bet he was soooo suuuure he could take cro cop down if he wanted to...
 
noizer said:
good point about books but this is once again about Takada.

Also, some office worker implying that it would be better to keep it standing is hardly evidence that suggests Pride had tons of fixed fights.

Gary Goodridge did an interview back in 2012 about fixed fights in Pride but i find his claim about 90 procent fixed in the early Pride days hard to believe but even if this was true he further claims that the more recent Pride events are all legit.

His story about Ogawa is a more believable story but then again he refused and lost anyway.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-90-percent-of-early-pride-fights-were-fixed
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Allow me to elaborate further.

He didn't say to keep it standing, he said that fans appreciate technique. The "office worker" was one of the promoters, but wasn't named by Kerr in the interview; so it wasn't some intern making photo copies but a decision maker. But as far as what was implied, it could mean anything. Kerr believed they wanted to Kerr to not take down Takada and bludgeon him.

If anything it is putting something in a fighters head, that could cause them to be less aggressive and fight in a way to please the office. Laying on some opponent and doing sweet piss all they are going to book you to fight again in a bigger fight next time around or at all? PRIDE didn't really have much use for Kerr after that.

Mark Kerr thought he was going to fight Royce Gracie for a sum of 150K back when fighters did not make that sort of money. Perhaps because he didn't give the company what they wanted the fight didn't materialize? Takada was devalued even more and Kerr's career went downhill after that bout.

Fights need to be entertaining. I'm not picking on PRIDE and saying all their fights were fixed. There are fighters that are flat out boring with their fighting style. Fights should be entertaining. "Styles make fights" is another way to fix things too. Speaking of Gary Goodridge, in his book he alleges that everything is for sale. If you are to avoid a certain part of the body, you can pay for that ahead of time. He claimed clubs would offer money to one another.

To add to your Gary Goodridge post, he mentions in the book that Sakikbara said that if Goodridge beat Ogawa, he could write his ticket in PRIDE. Goodridge blamed that for getting him so worked up and gassing in the fight.

If you want another case, Rampage Jackson claiming that PRIDE wanted him to fight Sakuraba and lose. But Jackson also says a lot of things. He's someone else I wouldn't trust because he bashes every organization he has ever been a part of and cannot help but complain.

Which was it Rampage? Poisoned or fixed?

http://www.cagedinsider.com/ufc/rampage-jackson-poisoned-sakuraba/

http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/06/12/update-on-the-rampage-accusations/
 
LORDTENSAIMMA said:
Dos caras had no choice. That fight was a minute long. He's just trying to save face for being so embarrassed.


I bet he was soooo suuuure he could take cro cop down if he wanted to...
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He is fighting with a lot of people recently backstage and at bars. Maybe he is gearing up for a rematch.
 
Coleman has always more or less confirmed himself that the fight was a fix
 
UFCFAN18 said:
Anyone find it weird how open they were talking about talking percs and buying weed in Japan? Being caught with illegal drugs in Japan is a big no no from what I hear.
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Good luck finding percs there, they don't even carry them in pharmacies.
 
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