Bas Rutten in UFC.. Rutten vs Randleman

[dcthegod]

I've been going back recently, in fightpass, to the early years of UFC. it's a lot of fun rewatching full events from 98 and 99. the UFC was trying to find it's way... rules and formats changing from event-to-event, stars leaving, new ones coming in and being born.

Obviously, they had big plans for Bas Rutten coming over and they made, what was supposed to be, a 3-part series HW tournament for the crowning of the new HW champion after Couture vacated. After Bas had major problems with his first fight vs tsuyoshi kosaka and won in double OT with a hail mary ko after getting controlled for the entirety of the fight, they essentially cancelled the next round of fights bc Pedro Rizzo (who won a highly controversial match against coleman) had too much respect for Bas ( or some bs like that). So they essentially cleared the way for Bas to fight Randleman in the finals.

Randleman immediately took him down and brutalized Bas for the first 10 min period in ground-n-pound. Broke his nose, cut him up - Bas came close to quitting in his corner due to broken nose. The first OT, Bas started getting busy from guard, after being taken down immediately again, and cut Randleman's head in a couple spots (blood in blonde hair). Essentially rinse and repeat for second OT. Bas won the split-decision. Then he vacated and retired.

I'm curious what people's present-day opinions are on this fight (and pedro rizzo being awarded win against coleman in previous event). And curious on what people think of Bas' short run in the UFC. Was he shook by those fights and was that the real reason he hung them up?

 

[MigitAs]

Bas essentially a better striking version of Ken Shamrock with worse grappling.

 

[BigTruck]

Bas essentially a better striking version of Ken Shamrock with worse grappling.

So completely the same just different in everyway?

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

So completely the same just different in everyway?

They are exact opposites.

 

[dcthegod]

where my old-heads at with some more insight

 

[filthybliss]

Randleman beat cro cop so maybe him

 

[tasticles]

where my old-heads at with some more insight

I was shocked back in the day. They actually made the rignt call. We can do a playby play if you want to upload the fight, because I recall randleman and Coleman having a fit that their lay n pray plan back fired.

Yes he initially did do a lot of damage, but after a while he would spam take downs and just lay getting elbowed.

 

[mkt]

I'm curious what people's present-day opinions are on this fight (and pedro rizzo being awarded win against coleman in previous event). And curious on what people think of Bas' short run in the UFC. Was he shook by those fights and was that the real reason he hung them up?

It's hard to say about Bas. His striking was quite good and he learned the ground game pretty well after some early submissions, but obviously didn't have great TDD (nor did any strikers in the 90s). But he retired from NHB/MMA early--most of his fights were in Pancrase with different rules. I wanted to see Bas vs. Igor V. when both were in their primes. Most would pick Igor because he was 40-2 at one point, but most of his wins were against Russian nobodies and UFC freak shows (Varelens, Fred Floyd) until Pride. Igor would have a solid puncher's chance but in prime he never faced a formidable striker with good leg kicks and big reach advantage. Bas, Pedro Rizzo and Mo Smith would've all been interesting challenges for him. I also wanted to see Bas vs. Pedro or Ruas, but they trained together so I don't know if that would've happened.

 

[arrmike]

Both decisions were bad.

Rewatched Coleman and Rizzo a few years ago. Coleman deserved the win and that would have changed the narrative that he was “shot” at that stage of his career (before winning the inaugural GP).

Bas and Randleman is a closer decision, IMO. But it leaves a bad taste to have a hw champion who can’t stop a single takedown. Bad did have some effective elbows from his back though.

 

[dcthegod]

I was shocked back in the day. They actually made the rignt call. We can do a playby play if you want to upload the fight, because I recall randleman and Coleman having a fit that their lay n pray plan back fired.

Yes he initially did do a lot of damage, but after a while he would spam take downs and just lay getting elbowed.

mostly true. and im never one to side with lay-n-pray wrestlers. but this fight in particular was tough to see it for Bas. they were def making a stand against 'top control to win'. he was on the verge of quitting after 10 due to the damage and randleman didnt look like he was in a fight. it was only the final 5 mins or so bas started landing a few elbows and strikes off his back - could argue he slightly rocked him once or twice, but to say he swung the pendulum all the way back in his favor is a stretch imo

 

[dcthegod]

Both decisions were bad.

Rewatched Coleman and Rizzo a few years ago. Coleman deserved the win and that would have changed the narrative that he was “shot” at that stage of his career (before winning the inaugural GP).

Bas and Randleman is a closer decision, IMO. But it leaves a bad taste to have a hw champion who can’t stop a single takedown. Bad did have some effective elbows from his back though.

for sure. my memory of the rutten/randleman was that it was more time on feet and more damage from bas off his back, but after rewatching it again, it really wasn't

 

[arrmike]

Bas had one skill that was ahead of its time (and maybe not equaled by any others): the ability to dictate and change pace. Not just to go hard with good cardio, but to selectively accelerate at key points in a fight. The TK KO is a prime example.

Frank Shamrock had this as well (like in the Tito fight).

Even GOATS like Fedor and Jones didn’t do it quite that way.

 

[Dr. Rose]

A key thing to remember is the judging at this event was for the totality of the fight, which really means to some, how the last few minutes went. We can debate whether that is acceptable or not, but that is really what happens. I would argue by the rules of the day, the fight is much closer than people believe. I believe Bas won that fight, and Coleman should have won his fight by this criteria.

I don't think I would classify the TK knock out as a hail Mary. He stated that he was going to KO him exactly in that manner and then he did it, which Big John has discussed numerous times.

Regarding Rutten's injury, go watch some videos of him talking about it. Look at the videos of him with his shrunken arm from the nerve damage. It is really hard to fake that.

Rizzo and Bas where friends and training partners, younger fighters stepping out so they don't have to fight a respected elder is very common.

On a separate note, this was the first UFC I watched in real time, everyone I was with thought Bas won.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

Both decisions were bad.

Rewatched Coleman and Rizzo a few years ago. Coleman deserved the win and that would have changed the narrative that he was “shot” at that stage of his career (before winning the inaugural GP).

Bas and Randleman is a closer decision, IMO. But it leaves a bad taste to have a hw champion who can’t stop a single takedown. Bad did have some effective elbows from his back though.

The bad taste is that Randleman mangled his face

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Coleman beat Rizzo but was robbed. Shows how tough he was and how good he was. Rizzo beat Randy once IMO and knocked out Barnett and young AA. A win over that version of Rizzo would have been a great feather in Colemans cap. Not many guys from that era could say they beat Rizzo and Igor.

Randleman definitely beat Bas and was robbed. Shows how good Randleman was. Beat Bas, knocked out Mirko and slammed Fedor on his neck. What a savage. His record didn't fully reflect how dangerous he was. Rampage still says no one has hit him harder than Randleman did.

 

[Deleted member 587672]

What's interesting is that the fortunes of each fighter is most likely built on having their respective wins/titles in UFC at that time.

Imagine if Randleman had won. What would have he built on that?
What would Bas have gone on to do if he lost?

 

[Haj01]

Randyman won that fight. Punched baldy's head in. Ruttenman did nothing but lay on his back. That's like winning a championship by laying down in bed.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I've been going back recently, in fightpass, to the early years of UFC. it's a lot of fun rewatching full events from 98 and 99. the UFC was trying to find it's way... rules and formats changing from event-to-event, stars leaving, new ones coming in and being born.

Obviously, they had big plans for Bas Rutten coming over and they made, what was supposed to be, a 3-part series HW tournament for the crowning of the new HW champion after Couture vacated. After Bas had major problems with his first fight vs tsuyoshi kosaka and won in double OT with a hail mary ko after getting controlled for the entirety of the fight, they essentially cancelled the next round of fights bc Pedro Rizzo (who won a highly controversial match against coleman) had too much respect for Bas ( or some bs like that). So they essentially cleared the way for Bas to fight Randleman in the finals.

Randleman immediately took him down and brutalized Bas for the first 10 min period in ground-n-pound. Broke his nose, cut him up - Bas came close to quitting in his corner due to broken nose. The first OT, Bas started getting busy from guard, after being taken down immediately again, and cut Randleman's head in a couple spots (blood in blonde hair). Essentially rinse and repeat for second OT. Bas won the split-decision. Then he vacated and retired.

I'm curious what people's present-day opinions are on this fight (and pedro rizzo being awarded win against coleman in previous event). And curious on what people think of Bas' short run in the UFC. Was he shook by those fights and was that the real reason he hung them up?

Bas was like 200lbs fighting at HW .. and had already had a pretty long combat career by then ..

I think he knew it was time to move on ... And good for him ..

It would been interesting tho to have seen him fight at 205lbs ...heading into the tito and chuck liddell eras...

 

[pankrat]

Bas was like 200lbs fighting at HW .. and had already had a pretty long combat career by then ..

I think he knew it was time to move on ... And good for him ..

It would been interesting tho to have seen him fight at 205lbs ...heading into the tito and chuck liddell eras...

To be fair, neither Randleman, Kohsaka or the guys Bas fought in Pancrase were legit HW sized themselves

 

[gracie_barra_samurai]

Bas always pushes the value of palm and wrist/forearm strikes, but when he was in MMA, it was pure punches he was throwing right?