AVENGERS: ENDGAME (Dragonlord's Review)

[Eusung]

Here goes, Bros...

First, fuck the Haters: this gets a 10 from me. Yes, there were mistakes - Fat Thor, Professor Hulk - but the whole was far more than the sum of it's parts. And that scene/line from Tony at the end...

View attachment 572161

The movie is relatively slow to start, especially compared to Infinity War. But, as other have already pointed out, this allows people like RDJ, Evans and Johansson to remind us that they're not just pretty faces(and America's Ass). Give them a decent script and they'll bring the damn Heat. Hawkeye's plea to Natasha,

"Don't...give me hope"

Is just the first in a long line of emotional gut-punches. The post-Snap world is impressively realised - empty stadiums, support groups for those left behind - without detracting from the main plot.

As I said, compared to IW, this is a slow burn of a movie, and not all of it works. Big Thor Lowboski is funny for maybe 20 minutes, then you want him to sober up, do a Full Training Camp and get back to being the Ultimate Bro. Professor Hulk is a wasted opportunity. I was hoping for a rematch with Thanos, where the Hulk would fight with skill and intelligence. But he never gets a chance to show what he can really do, apart from surviving using the Stones to undo The Snap.

Captain Marvel was in the movie for just the perfect amount of time. She acts as a Dues ex Machina in a couple of important scenes, but there is no time where it feels like she's taking over the whole movie. And it's clear that, even as powerful as she is, she isn't taking down the Mad Titan on her own.

But when this movie starts scoring touch down after touch down and spiking it in the end zone(pun intended)you don't give a fuck about any shortcomings. It really is that fucking good.

- Nat sacrificing herself for the Soul Stone. This is Johansson's finest hour in the MCU. Truly heartbreaking. And the best she's looked since Iron Man 2.

- Cap says Hail Hydra!

- "That is America's Ass"<Lmaoo><45>

- Spider-Man finally switches on Instant Kill Mode

- Cap. Lifts. Mjolnir! I wasn't the only guy in the audience who cheered that scene. As pure Fan Service, there's nothing better, right? Wrong of course...

"Avengers Assemble!" While holding Mjolnir and what's left of the Shield...yeah, I pity the poor cinema employee who had to clean my seat after that scene The final battle is the best scene of it's kind every put on film.

The final scenes, Tony's sacrifice - "I am Iron Man" - and Cap finally getting his dance with his best girl, are absolutely perfect ways to bring the saga to it's natural end.

Jo and Anthony, you broke my heart today. And I love you for it

I forgot about some of the moments above that were great, a good sign I'll enjoy it even more on rewatch.

I couldn't even cheer when Cap held Mjolnir because I was frozen with delight...everyone else was clapping.

When Thanos got the better of Captain Marvel two times (well, 2nd time he had to use a stone) I accidently slipped out a "phew, hell yeah Thanos!" and it the row in front of me were like "WTF is wrong w/ this guy?" and then when Thanos turned to dust I went "Nooo....Thanos" and again the Thai audience were like "This guy insane?"

Yes it's good they showed how dismal the world was after the snap...reminiscent of Final Fantasy VI after Kefka burns the world on fire. And I had goosebumps at "5 years later" - so glad that rumor turned out to be true.

Tony having a child w/ Pepper was spoiled last year by Paltrow letting it slip in an interview, but I loved Tony making the sacrifice having a family, but giving it up to save the universe. "I am Iron Man" was great. Perfect ending and call back to Iron Man 1.

But my attention is so focused on Cap fighting Thanos. And "Avengers....assemble" makes me glad Whedon held off on it, because it was so satisfying to hear a first time.

I'm gonna go to the theater to see it again...the trio vs. Thanos is something that's gonna warrant rewatch after rewatch like the Strange and Iron Man vs. Thanos fights.

 

[Magooglie]

Time travel, talking raccoons and aliens are one thing, but Peggy settling for manlet Steve? I can only suspend my belief so far.

It's character that matters! MCU's legion of nerd fans need to know that!

 

[Magooglie]

This mostly sums up my feelings right after the movie and still today except I was expecting almost no Dr. Strange at all so i wasn't disappointed there. Actually a Strange vs. Maw rematch would have been cool.

Thor being the way he is makes it very confusing where he is at. He has Stormbreaker which is significantly more powerful than Mjolnir...does he still have Odin Force? Is he rusty? He's still worthy.

And Hulk. I thought they were setting up the baddest Hulk we've ever seen for this movie.

Hawkeye being Punisher in Tokyo was cool but I blinked too much gotta see it again.

I loved Thanos seeing himself succeed in the future making his God complex reach more levels of insanity. Also his monologues towards the trio before their fight and then his words to Cap in their stand off: "It was never personal"

The Nebula twist was a really nice way to bring Thanos to the Avengers. And this is how they brought back Gamora. I like this better because she isn't resurrected, the Gamora that died in IW is still dead. Vision is still dead....I think?

With Thor it feels like they were setting up Thor in Ragnarok was to retire as King but then Chris Hemsworth was like "No, I want to play more Thor!" so they needed a way to make his character become unformed/immature again and go through another growth cycle.

When Quill is on the ship the screen with Gamora on it says Searching so I'm not sure if they're going to keep 2014 Gamora. They can probably rebuild Vision if they want the character to come back.

This strikes me as something else which is full of holes if you think about it too much. Cap taking all the infinity stones back to their original points in time. Does that mean he would have met Redskull when returning the Soul stone?

It would be funny if the end scene of the Black Widow prequel movie is Cap going to Vormir and talking to Red Skull and that's the moment Cap decides he's going to live with Peggy. Then Skull mentions a "soul for a soul" thinking Cap wants to get the infinity stone, but Cap opens his hand and it's the soul stone. Cue "Black Widow will return."

 

[Danasbaldhead]

That girl power wasn't cringey to be honest. They kinda looked bad ass. It's fun to see the wasp join the fight. Hell even Mantis was joining

Korg also in the houuuuussseeee!

Korg and Drax are the best Marvel characters by far imo

 

[aunshi189]

After further thought on the film I've decided the best way to evaluate it is in typical Sherdog fashion and group the characters into 'GOATS' and 'Cans'. There is no middle ground and this is based on their role in the film, acting, general badassery and any other intangibles I feel like.

GOATS: Captain America, Black Widow, Hawkeye/Ronin (so much cooler with a sword), Nebula, Thanos, Iron Man, Spiderman, Rocket, Korg, Noobmaster69

Cans: Hulk, Thor, Dr Strange, Black Panther, The Black Order, Scarlet Witch, Quill, Antman, Gamora.

Anyone left off the list either didn't do enough or I forgot them.

 

[KnightTemplar]

To those saying Thanos sans IG dominating Thor and Iron Man with ease is inconsistent w/ IW:

Thanos is all business this time and actually trying to kill them all without holding back at all. He's all geared up with his double bladed weapon (which was awesome) and he saw the future and knows what Tony and Thor are capable of. In IW he was just toying around with his IG abilities.

-He saw the future and probably thought he better not underestimate them.

How do you make a Big Bad who already handed the Avengers their collective ass and wiped out half the Universe even scarier? This time he's going to wipe out the entire Universe and reboot it from scratch. But only after he's slaughtered not only the heroes but every man, woman and child on earth. And he's going to enjoy doing it

Mad props to Brolin. Even with limited screen time he absolutely kills it as the Mad Titan

 

[Cole train]

Next film should be korg starting a revolution and taking over earth

 

[KnightTemplar]

With Thor it feels like they were setting up Thor in Ragnarok was to retire as King but then Chris Hemsworth was like "No, I want to play more Thor!" so they needed a way to make his character become unformed/immature again and go through another growth cycle.

When Quill is on the ship the screen with Gamora on it says Searching so I'm not sure if they're going to keep 2014 Gamora. They can probably rebuild Vision if they want the character to come back.



It would be funny if the end scene of the Black Widow prequel movie is Cap going to Vormir and talking to Red Skull and that's the moment Cap decides he's going to live with Peggy. Then Skull mentions a "soul for a soul" thinking Cap wants to get the infinity stone, but Cap opens his hand and it's the soul stone. Cue "Black Widow will return."

Red Skull, "At last! The Soul Stone has been taken and I am finally freed from my terrible punishment, guiding others to a treasure I cannot possess!"

*Cap returns the Soul Stone to Vorimor*

Red Skull, "HERR ROGERS!!!!"

 

[Magooglie]

After further thought on the film I've decided the best way to evaluate it is in typical Sherdog fashion and group the characters into 'GOATS' and 'Cans'. There is no middle ground and this is based on their role in the film, acting, general badassery and any other intangibles I feel like.

GOATS: Captain America, Black Widow, Hawkeye/Ronin (so much cooler with a sword), Nebula, Thanos, Iron Man, Spiderman, Rocket, Korg, Noobmaster69

Cans: Hulk, Thor, Dr Strange, Black Panther, The Black Order, Scarlet Witch, Quill, Antman, Gamora.

Anyone left off the list either didn't do enough or I forgot them.

GOATS: IW Thanos

Cans: 2014 Thanos

 

[moreorless87]

The Russo's were trolling the net pretty hard with some of those Cap Marvel moments weren't they? I could sense the ire rising before it was defused. <45>

I would agree it wasn't 100% successful with everything it tried, the humour didn't work into the film quite as consistently as Infinity War most obviously although I admit I did enjoy Lebowski Thor and indeed that he didn't "shake it off" even at the end, the characters always been a bit of an arrogant bastard hasn't he and I think really facing the music on that was fitting and makes me look forward to him working with the Guardians.

Personally I really liked Professor Hulk, I mean his role in the finale is played down rather but the character is very fun to watch having a bit more bravado to him I suspect will work well in the future(in the right hands anyway).

The fake out at the start of the film was definitely a good idea IMHO, not just holding out some vain hope but seemingly removing it totally made what followed a lot more impactful.

I admit I remain highly unconvinced by Captain Marvel, seems like all the problems of Superman power wise that ment she had to be kept out of most of the film and a truly annoying arrogant personality that unlike Stark, Thor, Strange, etc never seems to be viewed as a negative. Thankfully I think this film showed Marvel has had a quality female character for awhile in Black Widow, as mentioned this film moreso than any other Marvel exploits Johansson along with Downey Jnr and Chris Evans as actually having excellent acting chops. Along with Stark she was always my pick for a character dying simply because it always seemed to be her arc.

Besides the Soul Stone and Tony's father I spose you could argue the middle act felt a little slight at points with its time heist but it still was mostly enjoyable although its really the opening and closing hours the film really nails for me.

I was actually presently surprised the film focused almost totally on its climax rather than looking to setup much for the future, really only Thor with the Guardians. As far as the future goes yeah I'm not feeling very positive about Captain Marvel but perhaps she could be kept more self contained? Professor Hulk, Strange, the new dark Hawk, Buckey and Scarlett Witch and Black Panther does seem like a pretty interesting Avengers team, I'm guessing Strange and Black Panther in the Tony/Cap roles?

 

[Fluffernutter]

Question from my kid:

"If Captain America goes back to the 1940s to be with Peggy, does that mean that there are two Steve Rogers occupying the same timeline?"

 

[KnightTemplar]

Question from my kid:

"If Captain America goes back to the 1940s to be with Peggy, does that mean that there are two Steve Rogers occupying the same timeline?"

Congratulations. Your kid is probably going to end up doing research at some place like MIT if they're smart enough to ask questions like that

As @Dragonlordxxxxx already pointed out, trying to make sense of all the inevitable plot holes caused by Time Travel is an exercise in futility. At a certain point you not only have to suspend disbelief but hang it by it's neck until it's dead. While Cap staying in the past and making a life with Peggy was incredibly moving, it makes absolutely no logical sense. Even in a universe with Norse Gods, powered armour, Synthetic Lifeforms, Superhuman Powers and genocidal aliens.

 

[TONY-T]

My complaints..

Making Thor into a fat slob throughout the entire film was stupid. I was expecting him to transform himself when he regained his original hammer. Kind of like what he did in Thor 1 when he was losing against the destroyer and became worthy again. Also turning the God of thunder into a joke seemed out of place.

I thought Cap didn't age that quick and at the end of the film he is a very old man. Yet he made it to the exact same timeline as a young man. I'm guessing because the younger self was frozen in ice?

Tony did not need to do a snap. He could of used the other stones to destroy Thanos and his armies.

The only time the stones were used was for snaps. They should have messed around a bit with the other stones and used their powers more.

Hulk was under utilized.


I probably have some more, but these are the ones off the top of my head..

 

[TONY-T]

Also it looks like Marvel is going full SJW in the coming films. I'm looking forward to Spidey, but beyond that, meh...

 

[Magooglie]

Question from my kid:

"If Captain America goes back to the 1940s to be with Peggy, does that mean that there are two Steve Rogers occupying the same timeline?"

Yes. And if Cap did really marry Peggy then he has a couple normal kids in the world, living a normal life. And Cap probably felt weird when watching Sharon Carter grow up.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Also it looks like Marvel is going full SJW in the coming films. I'm looking forward to Spidey, but beyond that, meh...

I have to admit, with the exception of Spidey, Guardians and Doctor Strange, I'm not particularly excited for Phase IV of the MCU.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Went to a midnight showing of this to get spoilers out of the way.

Mid way through the film I was feeling a little off on it, the tone seemed a bit inconsistent and it was looking like a tribute to the series rather than a story in its own right. The final third of the film more than made up for that.
It was always going to be hard to give everyone a lot of screentime (even in 3 hours) but I'm glad Widow and Hawkeye got so much time and their storyline was really well done. I think Hulk was the biggest victim of their being too many heros, his only meaningful moment of wearing the gauntlet and snapping loses any significance when Tony does it much better and with way more impact. Professor Hulk didn't work for me at all, they should have had some element of angry smashing Hulk.
I think overall there were too many one liners and jokey moments, while some of them were funny I think they overdid it.
Cap with Mjolnir gave me chills, the final battle scene was 10/10

The time travel plot is going to leave lots of plot holes going forward which I expect will just be brushed over and ignored. Strange no longer having access to the Time Stone should in theory be a huge problem but maybe he's powerful enough.
Most interestingly will be how they deal with the fallout of Endgame in Spiderman: Far from Home. Every character who is still Parker's age at school must have been snapped as well and it stretches belief for all of the supporting cast of Spiderman to have lost the coin flip.

Overall the film was a fitting send off to the MCU in this form. It's been an incredible piece of filmmaking on this scale and I look forward to where they're going to take it post Endgame.

Cap returned all the Stones to the points in time they were taken from, just as Banner promised the Ancient One. So Doctor Strange should have the Time Stone back again.

 

[Magooglie]

Cap returned all the Stones to the points in time they were taken from, just as Banner promised the Ancient One. So Doctor Strange should have the Time Stone back again.

But Thanos destroys them so in the current timeline it's a stone-less universe.

 

[KnightTemplar]

But Thanos destroys them so in the current timeline it's a stone-less universe.

Mr Time Travel? This is why no one likes you.

 

[Magooglie]

Mr Time Travel? This is why no one likes you.

Red Skull is never getting off Vormir.