International Australia's Position in Asia-Pacific Geopolitics, as Beijing's Rising Shadow Casts Over Canberra.

[Neph]

Then they should focus on having qualitative military as much as they can.

I believe that is the strategy our military uses.

 

[Arkain2K]

Rudd was and is very pro-engagement with China, but his defence policy was all about hedging his bets.
The extent of that was revealed by Wikileaks.
He didn't actually fund that proposed military buildup though.

I'm curious, what did the Australian people think about the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, and their government's decision to withdraw from it?

Was there any polls/votes/parliamentary debates ten years ago on the subject matter to give an idea of what the people want compare to the ruling party?

 

[Neph]

Then they should focus on having qualitative military as much as they can.

Erwin Rommel, perhaps the most famous general of WW2, stated:

If I had to take hell, I would use the Australians to take it and the New Zealanders to hold it.

If you like your military history you should look up the Rats of Tobruk.

 

[Ruprecht]

I'm curious, what did the Australian people think about the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, and their government's decision to withdraw from it?

Was there any polls ten years ago on the subject matter to give an idea of what the people want compare to the ruling party?

The Australian public has never had any input on defence policy. That was never more clear than when all the papers were polling against our involvement in Iraq (both prior to and after the invasion) and Howard said it was his decision.

 

[Neph]

I'm curious, what did the Australian people think about the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, and their government's decision to withdraw from it?

Was there any polls/votes/parliamentary debates ten years ago on the subject matter to give an idea of what the people want compare to the ruling party?

I honestly don't remember what happened 10 years ago on it! I suspect it's much the same as how people feel now - they don't trust the Chinese governments motives at all but understand they are an important trading partner, while we still put faith in the US to be a good ally despite a lot of the crazy coming out of there right now.

As @Ruprecht has written in this thread there is still no US Ambassador to Australia for 18 months. That makes it clear we are of lesser importance than we have been in the past.

I don't see Australians making any large swings in alliances as culturally and ideologically we are very similar to the US however it feels that the US has really lost its mind and we are now in increasingly uncharted territory which foreign powers will exploit dangerously. The uncertainty is hurting everyone.

 

[Ruprecht]

I honestly don't remember what happened 10 years ago on it! I suspect it's much the same as how people feel now - they don't trust the Chinese governments motives at all but understand they are an important trading partner, while we still put faith in the US to be a good ally despite a lot of the crazy coming out of there right now.

As @Ruprecht has written in this thread there is still no US Ambassador to Australia for 18 months. That makes it clear we are of lesser importance than we have been in the past.

I don't see Australians making any large swings in alliances as culturally and ideologically we are very similar to the US however it feels that the US has really lost its mind and we are now in increasingly uncharted territory which foreign powers will exploit dangerously. The uncertainty is hurting everyone.

I can't find any polls dating from 2009-2010, certainly none about the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, but the Australian public has consistently polled in favour of us staying out of any conflict between the US and China over the East China Sea.

 

[Neph]

I can't find any polls dating from 2009-2010, certainly none about the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, but the Australian public has consistently polled in favour of us staying out of any conflict between the US and China over the East China Sea.

Of course we don't want to get involved but I don't know if the Australian public knows the reality that we will have to choose a side.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Australia could be the last stand like in the previous war!

When Gen.D.MacArthur said "I shall return"

 

[Neph]

Australia could be the last stand like in the previous war!

When Gen.D.MacArthur said "I shall return"

Side note

Churchill betrayed us in WW2

 

[ShinkanPo]

Side note

Churchill betrayed us in WW2

This is why this alliances are always sketchy.

I don't have the details about Churchill's betrayal in the 1940s but I have to guess he went on a U.K first policy and tried to forget that Australia is their commonwealth and that Australians are practically their own people aside from the aboriginals and other immigrants.

Its just the ugly side of human nature they will take care of their own interests first before others.

Do you see a powerful and a more self reliant Australia in the future?

 

[Neph]

Do you see a powerful and a more self reliant Australia in the future?

I see a more uncertain future with how things are going right now. I don't see Australia ever having the population to be able to properly defend itself so its goal has to be stability.

Right now we look like we are increasingly heading towards conflict between the US and China with the South China Sea being a huge flashpoint. Take a look at this article that just came out...

China hits back after White House slams territory warning to global airlines as 'Orwellian nonsense'

China has struck back after the White House criticised its "Orwellian nonsense" for trying to police 36 international companies and change how they refer to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as seperate countries.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry has called for foreign companies operating in China to "respect the country's sovereignty and territorial integrity", abide by Chinese laws and "respect the Chinese people's national sentiments".

"Whatever the US said cannot change the fact that there is only one China in the world and Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan are indispensable parts of Chinese territory," Geng Shuang, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said.

The Chinese Civil Aviation Administration (CAAC) last month issued a written warning to 36 foreign airlines, including a number of US carriers, demanding the companies change their references to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau and declare the regions a part of China, the White House said.

The statement said President Donald Trump "will stand up for Americans resisting efforts by the Chinese Communist Party to impose Chinese political correctness on American companies and citizens".

"This is Orwellian nonsense and part of a growing trend by the Chinese Communist Party to impose its political views on American citizens and private companies.

"We call on China to stop threatening and coercing American carriers and citizens."

Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs strongly condemned the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs of its "overbearing use of political power" to coarsely interfere with the behaviour of private businesses and the operations of international corporations, ministry spokesperson Andrew Lee said last month.

He said no matter what measures Beijing took, threatening foreign businesses to submit to false claims would not only fail to change the objective fact, but also increase Taiwan people's aversion towards the Chinese Government.

 

[Arkain2K]

I see a more uncertain future with how things are going right now. I don't see Australia ever having the population to be able to properly defend itself so its goal has to be stability.

Start contributing your effort to the cause and PROCREATE, Aussies!

Australia could be the last stand like in the previous war!

This time I hope they'll make use of all the deadly animals they have on that island.

I can picture a platoon of PLA troops jumping off their amphibious boats and promptly getting stung half to death by a school of box jelly fish, then eaten by the crocs on the shore.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I see a more uncertain future with how things are going right now. I don't see Australia ever having the population to be able to properly defend itself so its goal has to be stability.

Right now we look like we are increasingly heading towards conflict between the US and China with the South China Sea being a huge flashpoint. Take a look at this article that just came out...

China hits back after White House slams territory warning to global airlines as 'Orwellian nonsense'

China has struck back after the White House criticised its "Orwellian nonsense" for trying to police 36 international companies and change how they refer to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as seperate countries.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry has called for foreign companies operating in China to "respect the country's sovereignty and territorial integrity", abide by Chinese laws and "respect the Chinese people's national sentiments".

"Whatever the US said cannot change the fact that there is only one China in the world and Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan are indispensable parts of Chinese territory," Geng Shuang, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said.

The Chinese Civil Aviation Administration (CAAC) last month issued a written warning to 36 foreign airlines, including a number of US carriers, demanding the companies change their references to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau and declare the regions a part of China, the White House said.

The statement said President Donald Trump "will stand up for Americans resisting efforts by the Chinese Communist Party to impose Chinese political correctness on American companies and citizens".

"This is Orwellian nonsense and part of a growing trend by the Chinese Communist Party to impose its political views on American citizens and private companies.

"We call on China to stop threatening and coercing American carriers and citizens."

Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs strongly condemned the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs of its "overbearing use of political power" to coarsely interfere with the behaviour of private businesses and the operations of international corporations, ministry spokesperson Andrew Lee said last month.

He said no matter what measures Beijing took, threatening foreign businesses to submit to false claims would not only fail to change the objective fact, but also increase Taiwan people's aversion towards the Chinese Government.

This is interesting, I don't know what to think of it right now it seems we are into a some sort of "Cuban Missile Crisis light" here.

Another issue concerning the region is how would the US/Korea talks would turn out will it be favorable to China or the US Hegemony?

Will the USA ramp up its pressure against China regarding its militarization of the waters around Australia? Considering the USA and both have business interests and huge economic ties. Will the USA tolerate a more powerful China and will the Chinese stop expanding at some point to preserve some sort of status quo and avoid conflict?

At the backgrounds of this issues are resources and many countries are driven to gather more of it weather it be by massive economic growth or via the continuous increase in population.

China may have a controlled and a slight population decline in the future but the goals of their industry seems to expand and a mass wealth and all that will require resources.


I have a theory on how this might play out in the long term but I have to translate it first into English properly before I share it so it won't be a pain in the ass to read.

 

[Ruprecht]

I see a more uncertain future with how things are going right now. I don't see Australia ever having the population to be able to properly defend itself so its goal has to be stability.

Right now we look like we are increasingly heading towards conflict between the US and China with the South China Sea being a huge flashpoint. Take a look at this article that just came out...

China hits back after White House slams territory warning to global airlines as 'Orwellian nonsense'

China has struck back after the White House criticised its "Orwellian nonsense" for trying to police 36 international companies and change how they refer to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as seperate countries.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry has called for foreign companies operating in China to "respect the country's sovereignty and territorial integrity", abide by Chinese laws and "respect the Chinese people's national sentiments".

"Whatever the US said cannot change the fact that there is only one China in the world and Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan are indispensable parts of Chinese territory," Geng Shuang, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said.

The Chinese Civil Aviation Administration (CAAC) last month issued a written warning to 36 foreign airlines, including a number of US carriers, demanding the companies change their references to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau and declare the regions a part of China, the White House said.

The statement said President Donald Trump "will stand up for Americans resisting efforts by the Chinese Communist Party to impose Chinese political correctness on American companies and citizens".

"This is Orwellian nonsense and part of a growing trend by the Chinese Communist Party to impose its political views on American citizens and private companies.

"We call on China to stop threatening and coercing American carriers and citizens."

Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs strongly condemned the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs of its "overbearing use of political power" to coarsely interfere with the behaviour of private businesses and the operations of international corporations, ministry spokesperson Andrew Lee said last month.

He said no matter what measures Beijing took, threatening foreign businesses to submit to false claims would not only fail to change the objective fact, but also increase Taiwan people's aversion towards the Chinese Government.

I'd like to think our values are inherently more aligned with liberal democracy, so we'll do a better job of resisting Chinese influence than we have with American influence. Not to mention the language barrier. I guess we haven't seen a Chinese equivalent of the CIA setting up Quandrant magazine or the free trade agreement flooding Australia with American media.
I'm pessimistic though.
China's soft power is all about it's economic development and investment, and that's already sunk it's hooks in.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Australia could be the last stand like in the previous war!

When Gen.D.MacArthur said "I shall return"

MacArthur did some great things as a general, but talk about fuck ups. He abandoned the Phillipines to the Japanese, although nowadays we know how weak the japanese land forces were and how easily a defense could have been maintained. He also had the brilliant idea of moving north into North Korea.
A quick recap. North Korea attacked South Korea, the americans and the south koreans resisted on the Pusan perimeter and repelled the NK attack. MacArthur led an amphibious assault that destroyed the rest of the NK forces.
NK was done, their capital was captured, they had no more troops, all that had to be done was to fortify and negotiate a truce.
But no, MacArthur though it was a good idea to take his tired troops all the way up to the chinese border to conquer some frozen hills. His troops got ambushed and destroyed by the Chinese. The UN forces had to pull back and NK fell to the Chinese. The americans were able to counterattack later but now there were millions of chinese troops in NK and now we have rocketman.

 

[WTF2008]

Only if you want a Russian nuke targeted on you.

 

[WTF2008]

I'd like to think our values are inherently more aligned with liberal democracy, so we'll do a better job of resisting Chinese influence than we have with American influence. Not to mention the language barrier. I guess we haven't seen a Chinese equivalent of the CIA setting up Quandrant magazine or the free trade agreement flooding Australia with American media.
I'm pessimistic though.
China's soft power is all about it's economic development and investment, and that's already sunk it's hooks in.

You're ridiculous. There's no 'liberal values' other than the ones you're told to believe.

 

[Ruprecht]

You're ridiculous. There's no 'liberal values' other than the ones you're told to believe.

You should probably google, "liberal democracy".

 

[WTF2008]

You should probably google, "liberal democracy".

You should probably stay away from Google.

 

[WTF2008]

The USA has nukes in your backyard and has made you a target. You're done in a war.