Assessing Tony's groundgame

Tony would be more formidable if he stuffed takedowns more keenly, had more urgency getting up and... ACTUALLY FUCKING SNATCHED TAKEDOWNS AND TOP CONTROL OF HIS OWN. HE'S A WRESTLER FOR FUCK'S SAKE. USE IT.
 
DP went 9-1-1 in 11 fights before losing to Khabib then won his next 2 fights.

So he's 11-1-1 in 13 fights. And those were against certified competition.

To beginning part of Tony's streak was against nobodies.

You give Tony Dustin's schedule and he wouldn't have gone undefeated in 12 fights.


Lool what?
Dude lost to khabib , kod by mj, that 2loses in 9cutie. Before that lost to Conor and cub Swanson lol

Dude fought bunch of cans.
Jim Miller
Akira
Yancy m
Brandao
Ferria only OK win
 
Good points, proper assessment on his ground game. No need to diss 10p though, it's a proven style of bjj and their practitioners have proved it's effectiveness in sport bjj and mma. Just doesn't seem like there are a lot of 10p BJJ in mma so the top grapplers in mma are not using 10p system for the most part, so that's probably why people think it doesn't work. I don't train with 10p, just something I've observed with bjj and mma community in terms of 10p BJJ.
 
Lool what?
Dude lost to khabib , kod by mj, that 2loses in 9cutie. Before that lost to Conor and cub Swanson lol

Dude fought bunch of cans.
Jim Miller
Akira
Yancy m
Brandao
Ferria only OK win

Yeah because Rios, kikuno, Ramsey and Nijem aren't 4 cans.

You saying Jim Miller is a can tells me everything I need to know about your MMA knowledge.

You're name should be ImsimpingforTferg
 
Yeah because Rios, kikuno, Ramsey and Nijem aren't 4 cans.

You saying Jim Miller is a can tells me everything I need to know about your MMA knowledge.

You're name should be ImsimpingforTferg
Think this dude is trolling. Where are the mods ?
 
Yeah because Rios, kikuno, Ramsey and Nijem aren't 4 cans.

You saying Jim Miller is a can tells me everything I need to know about your MMA knowledge.

You're name should be ImsimpingforTferg


No I actually like Jim and dan Miller..i wish them best because of dans son. I think I've watched UFC longer then you
 
No I actually like Jim and dan Miller..i wish them best because of dans son. I think I've watched UFC longer then you
Idk. I was watching UFC's at the video rental store in the 90s while my mom was doing laundry at the laundry mat. I started watching religiously in late 2005 until 2017 when my interest in it started to decline.
 
Everything you listed that 'he does not do' is all down to being a 10th planet jiu jitsu representative. They sacrifice fundamentals for attacks that don't really attack against people who know how to defend well..

another reason why Ferguson was lucky to have avoided Khabib
 
Idk. I was watching UFC's at the video rental store in the 90s while my mom was doing laundry at the laundry mat. I started watching religiously in late 2005 until 2017 when my interest in it started to decline.

Sounds fair..im in the same range ..atleast you didn't attack me personally cuz of my opinion so thank you
 
Except this is true of all front headlock chokes for pretty much every fighter. It is always more effective to stop the takedown then attack a guillotine/darce/anaconda.

To suggest this is idiosyncratic to Tony Ferguson is absurd.
That is true, furthermore Tony is really good at snap downs so you don't even have to shoot on him for him to grab it. IIRC against Lando he timed Lando's head movement and snatched it up standing then forced Lando to the mat.
 
Everything you listed that 'he does not do' is all down to being a 10th planet jiu jitsu representative. They sacrifice fundamentals for attacks that don't really attack against people who know how to defend well..

another reason why Ferguson was lucky to have avoided Khabib
I remember when the rubber guard for suppose to revolutionize BJJ and fighting.

That fad ended about as quick as it came.

I like Eddie Bravo and have rolled at the Chicago chapter 10th planet gym. The system teaches some fun stuff but yeah they sacrifice fundamentals for unorthodoxy which is good as times but can't be the foundation.

Eddie Bravo can get away with it because he studied and practiced fundamentally sound BJJ most of his life.

But I'm of the mindset go to a fundamentally sound BJJ gym in the beginning that uses a teach and teaches self defense for a while (2 years or so) before taking off the Gi and venturing into sport BJJ. I've seen a guy get powerbombed on linoleum because he was attempting a triangle. I've always felt like a person who trained BJJ for self defense would understand what they can and can't do and when they can or can't do something. Dude's shoulder separated
and the guy proceeded to pretend his arms were jackhammers for about 10 seconds while the other guy was yelling time out until we broke the fight up.
 
I remember when the rubber guard for suppose to revolutionize BJJ and fighting.

That fad ended about as quick as it came.

I like Eddie Bravo and have rolled at the Chicago chapter 10th planet gym. The system teaches some fun stuff but yeah they sacrifice fundamentals for unorthodoxy which is good as times but can't be the foundation.

Eddie Bravo can get away with it because he studied and practiced fundamentally sound BJJ most of his life.

But I'm of the mindset go to a fundamentally sound BJJ gym in the beginning that uses a teach and teaches self defense for a while (2 years or so) before taking off the Gi and venturing into sport BJJ. I've seen a guy get powerbombed on linoleum because he was attempting a triangle. I've always felt like a person who trained BJJ for self defense would understand what they can and can't do and when they can or can't do something. Dude's shoulder separated
and the guy proceeded to pretend his arms were jackhammers for about 10 seconds while the other guy was yelling time out until we broke the fight up.
I am a BJJ brown belt and have fought against some 10th planet guys (there is only one 10th Planet gym in Scotland) and beat them too, they have some nice rubber guard techniques - all that can be negated with a step into half guard.. I used to try and follow their half-guard lockdown system because it was my weakest area by far; but I have come a long way and dedicated it to a Leite style of half guard. The Lockdown is cool if you want to get held down in half-guard - it isn't meant for sweeping.. or doing anything except extending the leg and essentially stalling. If you are any good at holding a top position, then you essentially negate all of their offense from the bottom.

Once upon a time, I thought 10th Planet was the best kind of Nogi grappling, but lol. The average BJJ gym has evolved past this, and does the things that 10th Planet is known for - but better, and a whole lot more.

No disrespect to 10th Planet, but especially for MMA, it just isn't it.
 
All those weakness but Still one of the top 2 lw's ever
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Tony fought, back to back, two great grapplers with excellent top control. These 2 fights combined with the Lee and Castillo fights back in the day provide us with a good jugment of his overall ground game.


Tony's strengths
- Granby rolls
- Crazy scrambles
- D’Arce chokes
- Elbows off his back
- Good grappling cardio
- Doesn't tap


Tony's weaknesses
- Slam takedowns
- Reactive takedowns
- Bodylock takedowns
- It's easy to get to his hips
- Bad TDD
- Susceptible to Lay and Pray
- Susceptible to getting his limbs caught
- Can't or doesn't wanna get out of bottom
- Skinny waist
- Too much believe in his 10P bjj


Here's a list of things Tony doesn't do
- No urgency to get back to his feet
- He doesn't shrimp out
- No hip escape
- No sweeps from the bottom
- No cagewalk
- No defense against getting stacked


Observations
#1 Tony's D’Arce chokes only work when before he's taken down and he controls the descent. Same goes for his guillotines. Both techniques don't work for him when the opponent has already taken him down and is on top.

#2 Tony's unorthodox takedown defense doesn't work against elite grapplers like a Khabib, Dariush, Charles, Gregor and Islam.

#3 Tony's bottom game consists of just spamming subs and throwing elbows. Good grapplers can easily neutralize both those threats and continue to lay and pray on him.

#4 The only guy Tony has submitted from the bottom was a tired, staph infected Kevin Lee whose known to be susceptible to gassing out from grappling too much and getting subbed from the bottom.

#5 Tony's skinny frame and waist is bad for defending takedowns

#6 Tony's believe in his bjj system makes him not be urgent to either defend the TD for real or do everything to get up again. It's a liability instead of a strength against wrestlers/grapplers with great top control.


Can't wait to read you sherdoggers comments about my assesment on TF's ground game :D
This was actually a very objective and fair assessment. I don't think there is much I can disagree with. I would argue that Dariush and Oliveira are upper echelon grapplers and there isn't really any shame in being outworked by them, but it doesn't make your points less valid.
 
Tony fought, back to back, two great grapplers with excellent top control. These 2 fights combined with the Lee and Castillo fights back in the day provide us with a good jugment of his overall ground game.


Tony's strengths
- Granby rolls
- Crazy scrambles
- D’Arce chokes
- Elbows off his back
- Good grappling cardio
- Doesn't tap


Tony's weaknesses
- Slam takedowns
- Reactive takedowns
- Bodylock takedowns
- It's easy to get to his hips
- Bad TDD
- Susceptible to Lay and Pray
- Susceptible to getting his limbs caught
- Can't or doesn't wanna get out of bottom
- Skinny waist
- Too much believe in his 10P bjj


Here's a list of things Tony doesn't do
- No urgency to get back to his feet
- He doesn't shrimp out
- No hip escape
- No sweeps from the bottom
- No cagewalk
- No defense against getting stacked


Observations
#1 Tony's D’Arce chokes only work when before he's taken down and he controls the descent. Same goes for his guillotines. Both techniques don't work for him when the opponent has already taken him down and is on top.

#2 Tony's unorthodox takedown defense doesn't work against elite grapplers like a Khabib, Dariush, Charles, Gregor and Islam.

#3 Tony's bottom game consists of just spamming subs and throwing elbows. Good grapplers can easily neutralize both those threats and continue to lay and pray on him.

#4 The only guy Tony has submitted from the bottom was a tired, staph infected Kevin Lee whose known to be susceptible to gassing out from grappling too much and getting subbed from the bottom.

#5 Tony's skinny frame and waist is bad for defending takedowns

#6 Tony's believe in his bjj system makes him not be urgent to either defend the TD for real or do everything to get up again. It's a liability instead of a strength against wrestlers/grapplers with great top control.


Can't wait to read you sherdoggers comments about my assesment on TF's ground game :D
Intelligent, well thought out, and articulate. Why would you waste that here?
 
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