Army GFT

[adambomb]

I've been in OSUT in Fort Benning the last month, home on Exodus, and they have us practicing what they call Army GFT, a mix of Gracie Ju-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Greco Roman and Western Boxing. The BJJ part of the game is what we have focused the most on and untill last month wrestling was my only form of ground fighting, and I have to say, BJJ is some real effective shit. It's so simple I feel like a dumbass for not taking it up sooner, but it works so well. They mostly have us practicing rolling your opponent from his mount and then into his guard, goining into side control and then into the mount. The only difference is they are teaching us lethal movies like cross collar chokes, how to break arms and the like. It's really some intense shit. They let us roll for upwards of 3-6 hours sometimes and all the DS are Level 2 GFT or highter, which I guess would be like an instructor belt or something. Good stuff.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Cross collar chokes are taught in regular BJJ classes too. In fact it was one of the first chokes I learned when I started BJJ with a gi. I choked someone with a variation on it today in practice! Is the arm breaking move an armbar or armlock (like a kimura or americana)? I think that is taught too usually. However, six hours of rolling is really crazy. I wish I had the time and frankly the stamina to roll that long!

P.S. I found a really cool web site via Google which demostrates various Jiu-Jitsu techniques for the army. It may not be very useful for soldiers in the battlefield; however, it is useful for BJJ!

 

[TapouTime]

ijust got out of the army and i used to teach combatives i was a level 4 and i must say BJJ is way different than the shit the teach you.. a good blue belt will destroy those level 4 guys keep that in mind.. BJJ is very effective learn it at an academy where it is more pure.. but any JJ is good.. if you want to be better you got to learn from real BJJ players..

 

[marine]

yea a guy came in my jrotc class he had just graduated from basic, and he had a video of people rolling, i plan on taking bjj before i enter the military, most likely will do like a year in huntsville, and the college i am going to has a bjj club so i am cool.

 

[Kantian_relativist]

ijust got out of the army and i used to teach combatives i was a level 4 and i must say BJJ is way different than the shit the teach you.. a good blue belt will destroy those level 4 guys keep that in mind.. ..

I was under the impression that the only level 4 guys were the dudes that actually ran the combatives facility. Most of those guys were blues and purples, with a brown and a black as well. Not sure what you are talking about.

 

[marine]

well the guy i was talking to said, one of the gracies was their with his class, so i guess he got good training, but i would still think i blue could own still,

i wonder if i take bjj before i sign will that kinda make me an ass,

 

[Kantian_relativist]

I'm not trying to turn you away from taking bjj, by all means, take it. It will give you a jump start on the rest of your buddies.

 

[DirectDrive]

ijust got out of the army and i used to teach combatives i was a level 4 and i must say BJJ is way different than the shit the teach you.. a good blue belt will destroy those level 4 guys keep that in mind.. BJJ is very effective learn it at an academy where it is more pure.. but any JJ is good.. if you want to be better you got to learn from real BJJ players..

good call. i have not been in the military but i have trained with a handful of people that were tought grappling in the military (army and marines). they have a good basic understanding of submissions etc. and would get buy against a totally untrained guy. the bottom line is they don't have enough mat time to think about competing with someone who is training consistantly.

 

[kneecompression]

good call. i have not been in the military but i have trained with a handful of people that were tought grappling in the military (army and marines). they have a good basic understanding of submissions etc. and would get buy against a totally untrained guy. the bottom line is they don't have enough mat time to think about competing with someone who is training consistantly.

i second this notion, as i was training with a military grappling instructor yesterday that is on leave for the holidays. we've been grappling for about the same amount of time. i couldn't sweep the guy to save my life but i eventually caught him with a kimura...the training they get is good, but i don't think it's very intricate. i'm only a blue

 

[Jason Pair]

I agree with some of the guys. I've rolled with a number of marine and army ground guys and while their technique would be effective against an untrained guy, they simply aren't on the level of a solid submission guy from a jiu-jitsu academy.

Seems to be true in my experience. Glad they are teaching Jiu-Jitsu in the military though.

To the guy who is going to take BJJ before enlisting, it could only help you out. Goodluck

 

[The Man Monster]

Yeah after 4 months at my school we got a surge of Army guys in and we owned them all.
My first fight with a Army guy was funny as shit, he had a BB in Taekwondo and Kenpo plus his military training so I thought I was about to get fucked up badly.
As soon as we started going he throw a spinning heel kick at my head, mid spin I Thai kicked his supporting leg and dropped him. From there I just climbed on his back for the RNC.
I'm not sure who was more shocked, him or me... I did NOT expect to win that fight, but I'm glad I did.

 

[BulldogSIX]

Here's a reply I made to a poster who created a thread about pwning a Navy SEAL while rolling one day. It talks about why the Army trains combatives.

Guys,

Here's my background to establish my credibility. Been in the military since 1990 (first as an enlisted guy then an officer). Served in several units, 1st CAV Division, 101st Airborne (Air Assault), and 1st Ranger Battalion. I have worked with the SEALs along with many other US and foreign specops units. I've deployed to Kuwait, Haiti, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

The threadstarters story is entirely plausible. I don't know him but I choose not to doubt his veracity. The problem with hand to hand combat in the services is that until recently it didn't get a lot of attention. There is only so much time in the training day and hand to hand combat just wasn't important. Of course you always had the commander who had studied martial arts as a kid and made his guys train but he was the exception rather than the rule. I know for a fact that in the mid-90's SEAL Team 6 was training Kali stickfighting. In the Army right around the same time 2nd Ranger Battalion began incorporating BJJ into their newly created hand to hand combat program. Currently, a modified version of hand to hand combat program created by the Rangers is being taught Army wide under the name of the Modern Army Combatives Program. It incorporate the basics of BJJ (groundfighting), wrestling, Muay Thai, Judo, and stickfighting from Kali.

The real issue with combatives again is training time. Think about how long it takes to get really good at BJJ. If our soldiers spent that much time training BJJ they would not be able to do anything else. They couldn't do maintenance on their tanks or bradleys. They couldn't go to the range to practice marksmanship. They couldn't go to the field to work on small unit exercises. So essentially what you have is a basic system of fighting with the express purpose of instilling traits in soldiers that are important on the modern battlefield - tenacity, personal courage, self-confidence and the desire to close with the enemy. Secondarily, you have soldiers who can transition from armed to unarmed combat against a trained or untrained opponent.

Matt Larsen, the head instructor at the Combatives school at Ft Benning has a saying, "Do you know who wins the unarmed combatives fight? The person whose buddy gets their first with a gun."

 

[mcbadboy170]

http://www.realfighting.com/issue8/winkleframe.html


The author is Dr. Jason Winkle Chief combatives instructor @ West Point, and all around bad ass.

 

[Enron Exec.]

Im a blue belt I am going in Infantry in a couple months

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

I thought you worked for Enron...

 

[Enron Exec.]

I thought you worked for Enron...

I was aquitted. I ratted on the rest. Better them then me

 

[Cheney]

From what I have exoperienced the Army Combatives Program is a joke. You have some random guys in your unit who wrestled in high school and think they are a tough guy get the opportunity over others to go to the school and then they come back all high and mighty like they just spent two years in Brasil. And when then they teach you a bunch of stupid moves like getting a dominant position and just staying there, and my personal favorite: how to pass the guard a.k.a. let me put myself in a triangle. And when you try and do something that you have learned from class they deny it because they have never actually trained outside of the course at Benning, e.g. "There's no such thing as a body triangle."Then you get to "roll" and your opponent has no idea what to do other than sit on you and he thinks he is doing good because he is in a "dominant position."

 

[Kantian_relativist]

What you experienced were some dickheads that thought they were better than they actually are. The army's new combatives system is light years better than what it was. Besides, what is the MACP when you first start out if it isn't BJJ with bdu's on? The army's new system is a great step in the right direction. If you think it sucks that bad, go to Benning yourself and roll with some of the instructors. They are fundamentally sound guys.

 

[Soulfly]

From what I have exoperienced the Army Combatives Program is a joke. You have some random guys in your unit who wrestled in high school and think they are a tough guy get the opportunity over others to go to the school and then they come back all high and mighty like they just spent two years in Brasil. And when then they teach you a bunch of stupid moves like getting a dominant position and just staying there, and my personal favorite: how to pass the guard a.k.a. let me put myself in a triangle. And when you try and do something that you have learned from class they deny it because they have never actually trained outside of the course at Benning, e.g. "There's no such thing as a body triangle."Then you get to "roll" and your opponent has no idea what to do other than sit on you and he thinks he is doing good because he is in a "dominant position."

A couple things worth noting...

They way they pass guard as they teach in the military isn't a stupid way. I doubt some muslim activist in the allys of Baghdad will see the oppertunity / have the skill / posess the ability to slap a triangle on a marine gunning to kick his ass.

Also, dominant position is important in hand to hand combat in the battlefield. You want to be on top of your opponent because it is easier to arrest them, attack them, or hold them for friendly units to respond. If you are in a dominant position, you can run away if you have to, or pick up a nearby weapon to use on the downed attacker.

Most individuals in the armed forces do NOT have the time to learn advanced techniques needed for them to learn all the moves needed for a combat scenario, so they are only taught the ones that will help them survive. Ex: Take the enemy down and get them in your control.

And for anyone who wants to blast the combatives approach and it's new groundfighting system, when there are bullets flying everywhere, you want to get low so you don't get hit with enemy or friendly fire.

So in conclusion...
Shut up Cheney

 

[blanko]

Cheney,
don't confuse combatives with MMA. Combatives is designed for short periods of time. It's all offence, think about it. DO you think that some terrorist in iraq will pull guard? No. Combatives is all about taking the guy down/ grabbing and breaking. Works for even the "lowest common denominator".