Are there any significant differences between BJJ and Sombo leg/lower body attacks?

[Shadowdean]

Are there any differences in how Sombo and BJJ go bout leg, foot, ankle etc locks? Are there differences in how they set the attacks up, finish them. etc? Thanks!

 

[sambosteve]

The final lock is the same. Honestly, a kneebar is a kneebar, heel hook is a heel hook, etc.... What is different is how one gets there to the final submission. The grappling philosophy is different - movement, use of position, timing, etc. But in the end, the final submission is the same.

 

[colinm]

thats what i was about to say. people will argue that a judo armbar is different from a bjj armbar, etc etc...as if one style has a claim to a particular variation of a move. both styles have many of the same locks, but sambo does emphasize leg locks more from what i understand.

 

[TapSD]

Subs are the same..how you get there is different

 

[Resident A-hole]

Some of the Sambo positioning is different than what is taught in BJJ due to the sports having different rules. There are no chokes in Sambo, so you don't have to guard against giving up your back as in BJJ.

I noticed some of the Sambo armlock set-ups on the web show positions where in BJJ you'd just be giving your back away.

 

[sambosteve]

Lots of sambo coaches do teach chokes. In fact, most of the sambo coaches I know do. It often depends on their background. If they were mainly sport guys, no chokes. But, if they were military/combat guys, they teach chokes. Also, in Russia, most sambo guys are also judo guys and know their chokes very well. My coach always taught chokes and I teach chokes. We train for the specific rules but, the art does have chokes. On an interesting side note, sport sambo included chokes prior to WWII. I suspect they dropped them to distance themselves from Japan and Judo after the war.

 

[Aardvark]

The final lock is the same. Honestly, a kneebar is a kneebar, heel hook is a heel hook, etc.... What is different is how one gets there to the final submission. The grappling philosophy is different - movement, use of position, timing, etc. But in the end, the final submission is the same.

Is there a good overview of sambo philosophy on the web somewhere? There's lots of discussion and info available about judo and bjj ground philosophies but I haven't come across a decent discussion of how sambo is actually taught and the strategies emphasised.

Is there a central strategy analogous to bjj's "position then submission" or judo's emphasis on the transition from throw to newaza?

 

[SmashiusClay]

Lots of sambo coaches do teach chokes. In fact, most of the sambo coaches I know do. It often depends on their background. If they were mainly sport guys, no chokes. But, if they were military/combat guys, they teach chokes. Also, in Russia, most sambo guys are also judo guys and know their chokes very well. My coach always taught chokes and I teach chokes. We train for the specific rules but, the art does have chokes. On an interesting side note, sport sambo included chokes prior to WWII. I suspect they dropped them to distance themselves from Japan and Judo after the war.

Agreed, just because chokes are missing from the sporting side of Sambo, a lot of people assume that they are'nt taught or practiced. My Sambo classes always included a full overview of all grappling, we just ditched some of the moves to fit into competition rules and trained them the rest of the time in sparring.

The major difference with Sambo in terms of leglocks is the emphasis that is placed on them, they are taught from a very early stage and are used a lot. Quite a few of the bjj guys I've trained with have been comparitively weak with leglocks as they are'nt taught to beginners in some clubs and there is'nt the same level of emphasis placed on them.

 

[sambosteve]

I don't know of a comprehensive on-line site that does good justice to sambo movement philosophy. I would suggest the "Sambo for Professional's" series. It is an incredible instructional computer program. http://www.sambolessons.borec.ru/dou.php

My coach used the following phrases akin to BJJ's "position before submission". He would say...
"No Gaps", "Movement first, submission second", and my favorite..."Stillness is death"..LOL.

You can check out this site, it is not all that fantastic but it has some stuff on it:
http://glory.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/sambo.html

 

[Aardvark]

I don't know of a comprehensive on-line site that does good justice to sambo movement philosophy. I would suggest the "Sambo for Professional's" series. It is an incredible instructional computer program. http://www.sambolessons.borec.ru/dou.php

My coach used the following phrases akin to BJJ's "position before submission". He would say...
"No Gaps", "Movement first, submission second", and my favorite..."Stillness is death"..LOL.

You can check out this site, it is not all that fantastic but it has some stuff on it:
http://glory.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/sambo.html

Thanks!

I've managed to roll with guys from a variety of styles but haven't met any good sambo people. I know there were innovations in grips, wrestling style throws, etc and was wondering if there were any advances (or just different takes) on training methods and strategy.

Always looking for ideas to "borrow".