are the gracies religious?

[snakeybizz]

That's called being a douche.

I bet you're one of them guys that respect any old opinion no matter how wacko it is

jihadists want to kill apostates?...that's there opinion and its perfect valid...you are perfectly aloud to have that belief, and I will tell you why its dumb

the whole idea of free speech is literally to question dumb ideas

 

[snakeybizz]

A surprising amount of people here actually believe in imaginary characters and desperately try to convince others it isn't ridiculous.

not just in this thread but world wide, its shocking...the numbers do seem to be decreasing though as public schools continue to get better and poorer countries education systems improve

 

[Balto]

snakeybizz:

Since you are the TS, I am going to end here by just laying out it for you. I'm not even going to argue for my position. I'm just going to lay out the facts of me having my position and you having yours.

What is it that you want from me as an atheist? I mean, really, what is it? I am going to list out some things that atheists have told me they wanted from me in the past. Maybe you want them too?

You want me to respect your intellectual right to believe that there is not a God. Guess what -- I do. That's why I have even bothered to do this thread in the first place. I am respecting your belief enough to take it seriously in a debate.

The God I believe in is also going to respect your intellectual right to have your belief. That is also the ONLY thing that can keep you from heaven eventually. Read that again. Christians believe that the ONLY reason God would not put you in heaven eventually is because he respects your rational free will too much to force you to believe something you don't want to believe.

That is why Satan is in hell. God loves Satan inherently, but because Satan wants so badly to not believe God is God, Satan can't be in heaven. Guess what? God is totally okay with Satan having this belief. So ultimately, as long as you hold the sincere intellectual belief that God does not exist, even God will not force you to change. It is totally, completely, up to you.

This is what you want, right?

You probably also want Christians (or other religious people) to not force their beliefs on you in this lifetime. Guess what? Me too.

I actually work for the US Government in an agency that has a stated goal of working against terror. So the guys existing in the world right now that want to do this to you (think ISIS) -- I earned the money that I used to buy this computer I am typing on by opposing them.

I have a sworn oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. First Amendment is that there be no establishment of religion. It is my literal job to protect that. So I am with you 100%.

I know that Christians in the past have tried this in medieval times. Some Christians might even try now. Guess what? I believe they are wrong. I will oppose anyone who tries to do this to you in this world right now, and I actually do oppose this in the real world as part of the definition of my job.

Maybe you want everyone to love each other and live together in a society that follows the Golden Rule? Me too. I want exactly the same thing and work towards that end. I give to charity when I can, and I try to help people out other ways as well. I know I fall short of being perfect, but so does everyone else. I'm just here trying my best.

So, in summary, I am:
- Seriously respecting your intellectual position, even though I disagree
- Not forcing my beliefs on you
- Believing in a God that won't force my beliefs on you either
- Sworn to oppose any humans in this world who do try to force my beliefs upon you, and I'll use guns and tanks and stuff to oppose them if needed
- Wishing you and everyone else in this world goodwill and love and peace
- Inviting you here and now to come drop in and train with me, for free, if you are ever in the area (Northern Virginia)
- Telling you right here and now that after training, I will buy you lunch, give you a hug, and call you my brother even though you are an atheist

Now tell me, snakeybizz, what is the fundamental problem you have with any of this?

 

[Sexy Pants]

If snakeybizz isn't in - I'm in, training, hugs, and lunch. Your awesome!

 

[SummerStriker]

I don't think atheists are on Christian nuts because of those reasons. Young atheists are usually trying to convince themselves that god isn't real by breaking someone else's faith.

Old atheists are fighting a culture war because Christian religion is forced on secular people through politics: science education cuts, pro-life laws, anti-environmentalism (both because Christianity has been bought and paid for by corporate interests and Christians believe god made the world to be exploited).

There is no way to tackle those problems without out-breeding Christians or attacking their faith directly.

 

[snakeybizz]

I don't have a problem with any of it balto, I think we have a lot of common ground with regards to not forcing our beliefs on each other, wishing everyone in the world goodwill and peace etc... but the iffy point for me is, do we just respect every opinion? is there always two sides to the story...should we respect Mormonism even if we know for an absolute fact it is a made up crock of shit...should we respect peoples opinion that psychics and medium can talk to the dead, I don't think so. I think there's just as much evidence for the proof of Mormonism as there is for any religion

But that's not the same thing as not even allowing someone to hold those views...you can believe the moon is made of cheese all you want and I will judge the hell out of you for believing such a thing but you can still believe it even if its wrong and I would fight for that right...same thing goes for creationists who deny evolution, holocaust deniers, 9/11 was an inside job....THIS IS BAT SHIT CRAZY!!! (in my view), but your welcome to have that view, and we are welcome to rip your opinion to shreads

imo you can voice any opinion you like UNLESS it incites violence which is the limit to free speech...say and do anything you want UNLESS it incites hate or violence, that is the only rule for me, offensiveness is not good enough to not allow free speech

I'm offended when people tell me this is all gods plan etc. and everything happens for a reason when I myself am so bitter about this disgusting death planet we live on filled with greed, suffering and hate...you can still voice this opinion though

 

[snakeybizz]

If snakeybizz isn't in - I'm in, training, hugs, and lunch. Your awesome!

I've got first digs on the hugs bro back off

 

[Gambledub]

snakeybizz:

Since you are the TS, I am going to end here by just laying out it for you. I'm not even going to argue for my position. I'm just going to lay out the facts of me having my position and you having yours.

What is it that you want from me as an atheist? I mean, really, what is it? I am going to list out some things that atheists have told me they wanted from me in the past. Maybe you want them too?

You want me to respect your intellectual right to believe that there is not a God. Guess what -- I do. That's why I have even bothered to do this thread in the first place. I am respecting your belief enough to take it seriously in a debate.

The God I believe in is also going to respect your intellectual right to have your belief. That is also the ONLY thing that can keep you from heaven eventually. Read that again. Christians believe that the ONLY reason God would not put you in heaven eventually is because he respects your rational free will too much to force you to believe something you don't want to believe.

That is why Satan is in hell. God loves Satan inherently, but because Satan wants so badly to not believe God is God, Satan can't be in heaven. Guess what? God is totally okay with Satan having this belief. So ultimately, as long as you hold the sincere intellectual belief that God does not exist, even God will not force you to change. It is totally, completely, up to you.

This is what you want, right?

You probably also want Christians (or other religious people) to not force their beliefs on you in this lifetime. Guess what? Me too.

I actually work for the US Government in an agency that has a stated goal of working against terror. So the guys existing in the world right now that want to do this to you (think ISIS) -- I earned the money that I used to buy this computer I am typing on by opposing them.

I have a sworn oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. First Amendment is that there be no establishment of religion. It is my literal job to protect that. So I am with you 100%.

I know that Christians in the past have tried this in medieval times. Some Christians might even try now. Guess what? I believe they are wrong. I will oppose anyone who tries to do this to you in this world right now, and I actually do oppose this in the real world as part of the definition of my job.

Maybe you want everyone to love each other and live together in a society that follows the Golden Rule? Me too. I want exactly the same thing and work towards that end. I give to charity when I can, and I try to help people out other ways as well. I know I fall short of being perfect, but so does everyone else. I'm just here trying my best.

So, in summary, I am:
- Seriously respecting your intellectual position, even though I disagree
- Not forcing my beliefs on you
- Believing in a God that won't force my beliefs on you either
- Sworn to oppose any humans in this world who do try to force my beliefs upon you, and I'll use guns and tanks and stuff to oppose them if needed
- Wishing you and everyone else in this world goodwill and love and peace
- Inviting you here and now to come drop in and train with me, for free, if you are ever in the area (Northern Virginia)
- Telling you right here and now that after training, I will buy you lunch, give you a hug, and call you my brother even though you are an atheist

Now tell me, snakeybizz, what is the fundamental problem you have with any of this?

I don't think you need to justify yourself at all. I disagree with you on a lot of things but your arguments have been well thought out and calm, especially considering the topic. If i'm ever in North VA count me in! Likewise if your ever in New Zealand, beers are on me!

 

[snakeybizz]

I don't think you need to justify yourself at all. I disagree with you on a lot of things but your arguments have been well thought out and calm, especially considering the topic. If i'm ever in North VA count me in! Likewise if your ever in New Zealand, beers are on me!

I think he posted in a way the epitomises a discussion/debate as opposed to an argument which is the best way to talk about things

it is hard for the atheist to not sound strident when making his case imo

 

[Gambledub]

I think he posted in a way the epitomises a discussion/debate as opposed to an argument which is the best way to talk about things

it is hard for the atheist to not sound strident when making his case imo

That's why I try not to bother unless I see something crazy, or it is just a good debate on the topic. But i'm kind of weird, I think most religious people come across with a holier than thou attitude, while most atheists come across with a smarter than you attitude. People that bring religion (or lack of) into everything annoy me.

I also realized a long time ago, you're not going to convince someone to change their religious view point. The best you can hope for is to try and understand why they think the way they do. I don't think I have ever seen someone "converted" especially online.

 

[DiegoLunes]

I bet you're one of them guys that respect any old opinion no matter how wacko it is

jihadists want to kill apostates?...that's there opinion and its perfect valid...you are perfectly aloud to have that belief, and I will tell you why its dumb

the whole idea of free speech is literally to question dumb ideas

Feeling the need to put your opinion out on everything when no one asked for it makes you a douche.

You say that you would lose respect for the Gracies if you found out they are religious, yet it's not like they go around forcing their beliefs on people about religion the way you are. Comparing them to jihadists if they happen to be religious is just dumb.

 

[snakeybizz]

Feeling the need to put your opinion out on everything when no one asked for it makes you a douche.

You say that you would lose respect for the Gracies if you found out they are religious, yet it's not like they go around forcing their beliefs on people about religion the way you are. Comparing them to jihadists if they happen to be religious is just dumb.

so what your saying is you can have free speech but keep your opinion to yourself... the irony in that statement is absolutely beautiful

I said I'd be disappointed, nothing to do with respect

 

[Spazzmaster]

A simple rule for everybody: Don't bring up religion at the gym.
DON'T BRING UP RELIGION AT THE GYM.
It's BJJ, not church.