are the gracies religious?

[Balto]

Well yes maybe I wasn

 

[Gored Matador]

It literally gobs smacks me when I read it, thats just my own personal reaction though but my jaw drops when I read something like that.

just have a look at these statistics and really contemplate them for a second...don't just read words and numbers, but after every sentence think and absorb what you are reading it blows my fucking mind

Some 21,000 children die every day around the world.

That is equivalent to:

1 child dying every 4 seconds
14 children dying every minute
A 2011 Libya conflict-scale death toll every day
A 2010 Haiti earthquake occurring every 10 days
A 2004 Asian Tsunami occurring every 11 days
An Iraq-scale death toll every 19

 

[Deleted member 407839]

ha, the grappling forum is so pathetic.

 

[Hyperborean]

I do love the murder question. I will get back to it later, I have some social obligations I need to tend to now though. But to make that easier for later I have a question, Is murder murder always wrong regardless of what God says or is murder wrong because God says it is wrong?

 

[Was Exiled]

ha, the grappling forum is so pathetic.

It's funny because it's specifically called grappling technique

 

[Balto]

Christians are supposed to tell others about the Gospel. There are the actual words of the Gospel, but then there is a whole theological argument behind it that answers the "Why those words and not other words?" question. I try to show as much of that argument as I can because it is truly a lot more rational and well reasoned than just "because."

I think I got a lot of it out by now. I think a few posters were surprised by some of the points, so I hope it at least had some educational value there. The main reason I bother with this stuff is I usually surprise some people so I try to clear up those points.

Other than that, I think you have to use the mind that God gave you to decide your beliefs. Or if you think you got your mind from 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999999 random chance in the universe of everything lining up perfectly to make you here in this place and time the exact way that you are, then still use your mind to weigh the arguments and decide for yourself.

 

[Balto]

It's funny because it's specifically called grappling technique

Yeah that's like <10% of threads for sure.

For real though, I probably wouldn't come here if it was specifically grappling technique only. I like F12 better as a grappler support community.

 

[Was Exiled]

Yeah that's like <10% of threads for sure.

For real though, I probably wouldn't come here if it was specifically grappling technique only. I like F12 better as a grappler support community.

Yup, the technique threads probably get like 2-3 pages max while the gym politics ones get 10's of pages, everybody secretly likes drama I suppose

 

[Balto]

I do love the murder question. I will get back to it later, I have some social obligations I need to tend to now though. But to make that easier for later I have a question, Is murder murder always wrong regardless of what God says or is murder wrong because God says it is wrong?

The way you worded that is a little tricky, but I think it's kind of both at the same time.

We are created in God's image, so we naturally have a sense of what is right and wrong. This is why even people who don't believe in God still think murder is wrong. They still have that natural moral ability. That doesn't mean people won't ignore it and choose to murder anyway, but inherently people seem to know it is wrong.

Of course God also says it is wrong. But that is kind of like a chicken and the egg problem because no surprise that God's morality is the same morality that the humans he created in his image have.

One curious point is that moral atheists usually typically follow Jesus's moral teachings almost exactly. "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" is what most moral atheists base their moral philosophies from. As a Christian, I don't think this is a coincidence that the moral teachings of God directly are the ones we naturally feel are the best even 2000 years later, but of course that is my belief.

 

[Gored Matador]

The god of the bible isn't good. He's an asshole. People say he is good in the same way people say that fairies are good, or mad dogs are good, or bad children are good. They are hoping that by saying that he is good, he won't kill them or destroy all their things or send them to hell. That doesn't make him good.
God allows bad things to happen in the world because:
He doesn't care.
Suffering in sentient beings doesn't bother him.
His wrath and jealousy are more useful in predicting his behavior than his love.
He lets the devil tell him which people or things to hurt, such as happened to Job.
He has sympathy for the devil and will allow them to destroy a herd of pigs instead of putting them back in hell, no matter the cost to the farmer.
To make the world make sense in light of their being a god, you just need to believe that he is not all powerful, or not all good, or not all knowing. Lacking any one characteristic lets the world make good sense. I think that the bible, no matter how often it says he is good, shows that he isn't - that is unless you define good as whatever god likes.

how many false statements could you have in one post? you really have no understanding of philosophy in general, let alone Christian doctrine about God

but, if you say "the God of the bible" then we have to take the bible as true for this discussion

God created the world and gave us life
- this is good

God gave us free will
- this is good. without free will we CANNOT be good and we cannot love and we would be nothing but robots and only do things because we were programmed. i mean, a dog cannot be evil. it just is what it is. it cannot reason.

God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th
- so we have a 7 day week and on one day we are not to work. This is good. try working every day without rest. it is horrible. Think about all the learning or just being happy with your family and thinking about the world on this day of rest.

God wants to raise us up to him but the very fact that we have free will and are of nature prevents this. God is holy and just and good. He IS these things. They are his essence and not his attributes. he cannot VIOLATE them.

he cannot be just sometimes or holy sometimes

So, how can he raise humans up to him if they are sinful?
first establish a nation which worships the one true Lord God. Then God comes down to us in Jesus. He dies for the sins of the world. He is the sacrifice. Jesus paid the price of our sins.
Jesus offers redemption and eternal life with God for FAITH ALONE

Wow, um, now why am i supposed to be mad? wow, he so does not care right?

Oh, people do evil to each other.

Evil is a lack of good or a perversion of good and attaches itself to good
All hate is attached to love. Think about everything you hate. Why do you hate it?

But your problem with evil is it is doing things to each other WHICH SHOULD NOT BE DONE
like if God said to love each other and not murder and steal and etc. God is telling us all how to behave and we can agree these are good.

The very fact of saying something should not be this way is to say it should be a way
funny thing is "this way" is the way God has told us and has written on the hearts of men

Pain and suffering helps us with spiritual growth. it allows for bravery and love and compassion and charity. All these beautiful acts we are capable of--they all need evil to bring them out
thus, good will come even out of evil and this is the goodness of God
He can permit evil to exists but good will come out of it

if you see no fleas in your back yard, does that mean there are no fleas in your back yard????
then how can you say that a certain evil will not in some way bring good?

the natural disasters i already covered. but you get it. make a universe that can last long enough to produce intelligent life who can understand God enough to be raised up to him

so SS, you really just sound like an ignorant, ungrateful, and petulant child.
you should put as much time into learning about the only tru and complete religion: Christianity
as you put into bjj

 

[Balto]

Yup, the technique threads probably get like 2-3 pages max while the gym politics ones get 10's of pages, everybody secretly likes drama I suppose

This place is really good for technique though when you ask. I'm a brown belt, and I definitely learn stuff when I do a technique thread.

The only issue is that I learn maybe 3-4 new techniques a year. It just takes time for me to really "learn" a technique, and I can only do so much.

The rest of the time, yeah gym politics, Lloyd raping people, hey great job you got your stripe today, etc.

 

[Balto]

how many false statements could you have in one post? you really have no understanding of philosophy in general, let alone Christian doctrine about God

but, if you say "the God of the bible" then we have to take the bible as true for this discussion

God created the world and gave us life
- this is good

God gave us free will
- this is good. without free will we CANNOT be good and we cannot love and we would be nothing but robots and only do things because we were programmed. i mean, a dog cannot be evil. it just is what it is. it cannot reason.

God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th
- so we have a 7 day week and on one day we are not to work. This is good. try working every day without rest. it is horrible. Think about all the learning or just being happy with your family and thinking about the world on this day of rest.

God wants to raise us up to him but the very fact that we have free will and are of nature prevents this. God is holy and just and good. He IS these things. They are his essence and not his attributes. he cannot VIOLATE them.

he cannot be just sometimes or holy sometimes

So, how can he raise humans up to him if they are sinful?
first establish a nation which worships the one true Lord God. Then God comes down to us in Jesus. He dies for the sins of the world. He is the sacrifice. Jesus paid the price of our sins.
Jesus offers redemption and eternal life with God for FAITH ALONE

Wow, um, now why am i supposed to be mad? wow, he so does not care right?

Oh, people do evil to each other.

Evil is a lack of good or a perversion of good and attaches itself to good
All hate is attached to love. Think about everything you hate. Why do you hate it?

But your problem with evil is it is doing things to each other WHICH SHOULD NOT BE DONE
like if God said to love each other and not murder and steal and etc. God is telling us all how to behave and we can agree these are good.

The very fact of saying something should not be this way is to say it should be a way
funny thing is "this way" is the way God has told us and has written on the hearts of men

Pain and suffering helps us with spiritual growth. it allows for bravery and love and compassion and charity. All these beautiful acts we are capable of--they all need evil to bring them out
thus, good will come even out of evil and this is the goodness of God
He can permit evil to exists but good will come out of it

if you see no fleas in your back yard, does that mean there are no fleas in your back yard????
then how can you say that a certain evil will not in some way bring good?

the natural disasters i already covered. but you get it. make a universe that can last long enough to produce intelligent life who can understand God enough to be raised up to him

so SS, you really just sound like an ignorant, ungrateful, and petulant child.
you should put as much time into learning about the only tru and complete religion: Christianity
as you put into bjj

This is a really good, concise explanation of why Christians think God is good.

I mean the etymology of Gospel is literally "Good News". The whole thing is seen as a huge positive.

 

[Gored Matador]

ha, the grappling forum is so pathetic.

why is that? we are all grapplers or fake grapplers and want to discuss things with each other.
i mean, it is one thread. if you don't like it, don't post in it.

if you only want topics about things you approve of, well, go make your own message board.
I think we would all jump right up on the opportunity to post on a board with such a fantastic owner

 

[Gored Matador]

I do love the murder question. I will get back to it later, I have some social obligations I need to tend to now though. But to make that easier for later I have a question, Is murder murder always wrong regardless of what God says or is murder wrong because God says it is wrong?

what murder question? i think i know where you are talking about but did not see original post

lets get something straight first: thou shalt not kill
is the biggest mistranslation ever.
both in the commandments and from Jesus. it is: thou shalt not murder

so not all killing is murder. if you are at war with an army you are not murdering anyone. you are killing the enemy.

so if you murder a person and the punishment is death, the murderer is not being murdered. he is receiving justice.

God gave the jews a homeland. this was the first step of God's plan for our salvation. so, go out and wipe out the Amalikites (sp?). Kill all of them. they had their own cult that had baby sacrifice.

So, is this bad? to wipe out a people to give land to the Jews so that people may worship the true Lord God and will eventually through Jesus be offered redemption

what is the alternative? don't get involved and let people murder and war for no reason until the earth dies???

Again, God allowing evil so good will come from it.

you good now?

 

[LoRezzz]

It was mentioned that some scholars and Christians don't believe in the literal truth of the creation story of the bible. I recently read an article that the Pope believes in evolution and the scientific big bang theory. But how is that possible if you're a Christian?

If there was no Garden of Eden and there was no Adam and Eve and humans evolved from fish or whatever, then why would Jesus need to die? Wasn't that the point, to atone for what happened in Genesis?

Excuse me if I'm way off base. It's been a while since I've thought of these things.

 

[Balto]

It was mentioned that some scholars and Christians don't believe in the literal truth of the creation story of the bible. I recently read an article that the Pope believes in evolution and the scientific big bang theory. But how is that possible if you're a Christian?

If there was no Garden of Eden and there was no Adam and Eve and humans evolved from fish or whatever, then why would Jesus need to die? Wasn't that the point, to atone for what happened in Genesis?

Excuse me if I'm way off base. It's been a while since I've thought of these things.

The answer is that just because something is an allegory (like Genesis) does not mean that none of it is true. It just means that is not all literally true, but the overall message is true.

For example, we know the world was created at some point in time. It was also created in Genesis. The exact mechanism of evolution is not in Genesis, but the world was still created. Overall message: God created the world.

For original sin, humans can still have original sin even if they evolved from monkeys. God still made that happen. At some point in time, even if gradually, humans became different from monkeys and learned morality. The original sin part is that humans, by their very nature, will always sin no matter what. So that is why humans need Jesus.

 

[Hyperborean]

The way you worded that is a little tricky, but I think it's kind of both at the same time.

It might seem tricky, but it is not. It cannot be both at the same time, if you think about it a little deeper I am sure you will see why. The positions are mutualy exlusive, so you will have to pick sides here. I will await your answer before I go any further with this Q.

We are created in God's image, so we naturally have a sense of what is right and wrong. This is why even people who don't believe in God still think murder is wrong. They still have that natural moral ability. That doesn't mean people won't ignore it and choose to murder anyway, but inherently people seem to know it is wrong.

Of course God also says it is wrong. But that is kind of like a chicken and the egg problem because no surprise that God's morality is the same morality that the humans he created in his image have.

One curious point is that moral atheists usually typically follow Jesus's moral teachings almost exactly. "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" is what most moral atheists base their moral philosophies from. As a Christian, I don't think this is a coincidence that the moral teachings of God directly are the ones we naturally feel are the best even 2000 years later, but of course that is my belief.

...

btw the golden rule predates Christianity by quite a fair margin. But it will NOT be apart of my argumententation if we proceed with this interesting angle.

 

[Hyperborean]

what murder question? i think i know where you are talking about but did not see original post

The Original post was a theist asking me the Q. Read the answers and the post leeding up to it so you can follow. I idid NOT raise this issue so your response is premature.

lets get something straight first: thou shalt not kill
is the biggest mistranslation ever.
both in the commandments and from Jesus. it is: thou shalt not murder

so not all killing is murder. if you are at war with an army you are not murdering anyone. you are killing the enemy.

so if you murder a person and the punishment is death, the murderer is not being murdered. he is receiving justice.

God gave the jews a homeland. this was the first step of God's plan for our salvation. so, go out and wipe out the Amalikites (sp?). Kill all of them. they had their own cult that had baby sacrifice.

So, is this bad? to wipe out a people to give land to the Jews so that people may worship the true Lord God and will eventually through Jesus be offered redemption

what is the alternative? don't get involved and let people murder and war for no reason until the earth dies???

Again, God allowing evil so good will come from it.

you good now?

...

 

[Balto]

Okay. I guess what I was getting at is that nothing that exists can be truly regardless of what God wants. Even if God does not like what you do your free will, he still wants you to have that free will in the first place. The free will vs everything predestined as God's plan is always a tricky point, but that is how I understand it.

So ultimately murder is wrong because God says it is wrong. The fact that humans also naturally seem to intuit these morals as well (even if they use free will to disregard them) is because God created us that way.

 

[Hyperborean]

Okay. I guess what I was getting at is that nothing that exists can be truly regardless of what God wants. Even if God does not like what you do your free will, he still wants you to have that free will in the first place. The free will vs everything predestined as God's plan is always a tricky point, but that is how I understand it.

So ultimately murder is wrong because God says it is wrong. The fact that humans also naturally seem to intuit these morals as well (even if they use free will to disregard them) is because God created us that way.

Thank you for being honest. So, if murder is wrong because God says it is wrong, then it would follow if he were to declare it right it would be right, yes?