are the gracies religious?
- Thread starter snakeybizz
- Start date
I don't think it's historically demonstrable that murder and theft is harmful to a society at all. Especially if I'm part of the society that is the doing the murder and theft to the other society. Then historically it has worked out great for my society quite a bit.
I mean the fact that I am speaking to you in English right now from the USA is because all of the English speaking Europeans murdered and stole from the Native Americans who used to live here. From a pure historical perspective, the USA is doing awesome. The Iroquois Nation not so much, right?
Now I am speaking purely from an empirical, historical perspective. Morally I think it's terrible what happened to the Indians. But my point is that my moral judgment is outside of empiricism.
To your second part, yes, that is one difference. But it's still pretty easy to convince yourself to do bad things whether you are atheist or religious. I mean since we are talking about empirical evidence, I can point to empirical evidence of atheist guys committing mass murder right here and now in the present day.
That might have been the interview I was thinking of.
Helio definitely said some pretty out there shit in that interview.
I mean if we are talking pure biology with no philosophy outside of science attached, my goal should be to murder all competing males and sleep with as many females as possible. This would ensure that my genes have the best chance of survival in the future.
Historically, I think Genghis Khan probably came the closest to this ideal.
Historically, I think Genghis Khan probably came the closest to this ideal.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 7,475
- Reaction score
- 1,314
can you point to it? one of these examples collapsed after a few generations of under-performance, the other became one of the most eminent renaissance empires before britain empired even harder, and never completely degenerated afterwards either atleast until the modern era of popular politics (ie, the spanish civil war).
in otherwords, one of these points is 'pure ideology' masquerading as significant, materially or otherwise.
Last edited:
snakeybizz
Purple Belt
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,504
- Reaction score
- 0
nothing to do with if they were a bad guy or not...
i'd just think he was dumb, still an excellent human being tho
snakeybizz
Purple Belt
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,504
- Reaction score
- 0
lol strange use of language
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Messages
- 32,494
- Reaction score
- 2
If it was a longstanding and widely held belief in our culture, then no I really wouldn't care, and would think it is absurd that someone would. I'm an atheist and plenty of people that I admire are/were religious.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
- Messages
- 2,360
- Reaction score
- 230
Fuck grappling, I could read Balto discussing religion all day long :redface:
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2013
- Messages
- 1,841
- Reaction score
- 12
I'm not a very religious person, but you're kind of coming across as silly here. Was Gregor Mendel dumb? Was the priest who came up with the Big Bang theory dumb? Were the myriad of other religious people who also contributed to society in other ways dumb? You kind of sound like a first year college student who thinks they're cool and edgy for being an atheist.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2009
- Messages
- 7,199
- Reaction score
- 512
Just hold up there bruh. Islam is evil and Christians did the Crusades so they are evil because religion brainwashed them and I know this because Karl Marx said so. People should be more like Karl Marx and make a utopian Communist state were a lack of religion will prevent sin, especially murder.
There is no way I am going to accept you proposition that regardless of spiritual or religious affiliation people are just as likely to be bastards.
Now if you excuse me I am going to go tell everyone I have liked the "I fucking love science" page on FB so they know I hate religion and I am forward thinking and progessive.
peace out bitches.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2013
- Messages
- 437
- Reaction score
- 0
So Einstein was "dumb"?
snakeybizz
Purple Belt
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,504
- Reaction score
- 0
Einstein absolutely was not religious...don't even try to claim him, he was deeply spiritual but in no way religious
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,310
- Reaction score
- 0
+1. Very articulate points.....we'd prolly get along alright...:wink:
D
Deleted member 429137
Guest
Not sure if you can point to any society in the world that has benefited from murder and theft, except for perhaps the vast boon slavery granted American economics. Your words above acknowledge that you have to point to segments of society. Most societies punish murder and theft harshly even though they have different religions. Pretty sure every atheist would want those things to remain illegal.
Disease wiped out the natives. That's the reason that, of all the other places white people tried to colonize... India, Africa, China... white people are still the minorities there and have been pushed out as rulers.
The Indian massacres and legislative betrayals that did take place, while disgusting and a scar on the face of American history, had little impact on the European colonization of America.
You guys are way off track. There is only one thing that matters. When you die and stand before God, you will need to answer for your sin. The penalty of sin is death and separation from God. That penalty HAS to be paid.
Are you going to pay it? Or, will you allow Jesus Christ to pay it for you?
Don't be too proud to tap.
Are you going to pay it? Or, will you allow Jesus Christ to pay it for you?
Don't be too proud to tap.
snakeybizz
Purple Belt
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,504
- Reaction score
- 0
The author of that quote is blaming God for the actions of evil men. The sad part is that he seeks to make himself god by judging the creator.
You can shake your fist at God all you want because you THINK you know how to do it better. In the end, only one thing matters:
Who is going to pay for your sin?
Are you going to do it? Because the penalty of sin is eternal death.
Or, will you let the Savior of the human race do it for you?
You can shake your fist at God all you want because you THINK you know how to do it better. In the end, only one thing matters:
Who is going to pay for your sin?
Are you going to do it? Because the penalty of sin is eternal death.
Or, will you let the Savior of the human race do it for you?
Last edited:
Your American slavery example that you just gave is another good illustration.
[Parts of this address TsukinoKage's previous points
But to the point about atheist leaders always wanting murder and theft to be illegal, historically they like keep it that way to prevent other people from doing it to them. When they want to do it to other people though, suddenly it is totally legal and necessary for state security.
If you were among the 20 million or so people murdered by the atheist Joseph Stalin, the fact that it would have been illegal for you to kill Stalin but it was not illegal for him to kill you seems cold comfort.]
As for what happened with the American Indians, I think you are dramatically underestimating the systematic policy of genocide that was undertaken in the name of Manifest Destiny. Disease was certainly a factor, but so were military actions and forced removal. It is widely considered to be intentional ethnic cleansing.
White people seem to have established themselves pretty firmly in Australia without succumbing to disease. And there are much more significant reasons than disease for the British leaving India, apartheid ending in South Africa, Hong Kong going back to China, etc.
Last edited:
