History Are men less masculine today?

[Satur9]

I don't think this is discussed enough. It's amazing just how F'd up this makes men.
(yes, there are exceptions of course).

It’s likely because the conversation often gets framed as though the issue is entirely the fault of women. In reality, there’s plenty of responsibility to go around. Some men leave for selfish reasons; others are unfairly incarcerated. Some women leave due to child support or government program incentives. And sometimes relationships simply don’t work out for reasons neither partner can reasonably resolve. The list goes on and on, but tackling the issue alone makes folks uncomfortable as hell.

 

[Cole train]

Tbf i dont think people in past had exactly high test either due to malnutrition and being overworked, 90s was just peak life quality wise in west.

I had an excellent picture on old phone from early 1900s of average 18 year olds military health check up, people were suffering from delayed puberty due to lack of food and were very small in size and weak looking. (Military was first place where they got food 3 times a day)

This reminds me that my ex friend had WW1 uniform, it was basically fit for modern day teenager. Average adult would not fit in it.

(My test is probably through the floor but what the hell lol)

 

[JoeBobbaLou2]

It’s likely because the conversation often gets framed as though the issue is entirely the fault of women. In reality, there’s plenty of responsibility to go around. Some men leave for selfish reasons; others are unfairly incarcerated. Some women leave due to child support or government program incentives. And sometimes relationships simply don’t work out for reasons neither partner can reasonably resolve. The list goes on and on, but tackling the issue alone makes folks uncomfortable as hell.

These are fair points, and I'm inclined to agree. Men who "hit it and quit it" or don't assume responsibility as fathers are absolute trash.

 

[TYR-I]

Yes, men are less masculine and women are less feminine.

The reason being is people are more infantilized today. Immaturity is our actual spiritual pandemic of our time. People now act all too much like they are still in high school. The mindset is morphed to selfish individual consumption. Men troll, simp and prank. Women validate through social media. They combined forces to kill intelligence and class. Both are increasingly as "adults" living in fantasy worlds.

The modern divide isn't left versus right; it's people who can sit at the adult table and those who can't. The former group is shrinking, the latter expanding.

 

[Gene Tunney]

What's the obsession with masculinity?

To impress the ladies.

 

[GolovKing]

Biologically I'm sure the peak males today are more jacked, physically imposing and with higher testosterone flowing through their veins than throughout history. If you're talking about culturally, or in terms of lifestyle and responsibilities then no obviously not

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Of course. How is this even a question?

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Yes men are less masculine, many have been raised by single mothers and that culture coincided with feminism deciding men need to be like women to be attractive, because of they're fundamentally different that makes a mockery of the post modernist basis for their position. To realise differences are fundamental would require self reflection and self work and extreme 3rd+ wave feminism is the opposite of that, it's the epitome of "it's not me, it's you."

I agree that being more masculine leads to being happier and making those around you happier. I'd say that's right for 90% of men.

Define masculinity.

 

[freakroor]

younger men seem less hairy , like less back and chest hair

I bet you did a lot of research

 

[DaysOfThunder]

While people on average have gained weight due to poor diet and a much lower rate of non-exercise-oriented movement, things that traditionally have been seen as masculine, like martial arts and fitness/lifting culture, have all exploded into the mainstream and are way more prevalent than 40 years ago, how do you explain that?

Select sampling but not per capita!

 

[Phlog]

Define masculinity.

Exhibition of the qualities or appearance of a traditional male.

Masculinity could be evident as q competent, dangerous man who voluntarily takes on heavy responsibility, speaks truth, protects the weak, and confronts chaos to create order.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Exhibition of the qualities or appearance of a traditional male.

Masculinity could be evident as q competent, dangerous man who voluntarily takes on heavy responsibility, speaks truth, protects the weak, and confronts chaos to create order.

It sounds like what you are describing is simply a good person and not necessarily a man.

 

[Phlog]

It sounds like what you are describing is simply a good person and not necessarily a man.

So masculine doesn't really mean man as such.

Men and women exhibit masculinity and femininity, if they are properly realised they will exhibit both aspects to greater or lesser extents.

Femininity would be nurturing, merciful, creative, more agreeable and, when necessary, terrifyingly powerful in defense of what it loves.

 

[freakroor]

discussions about masculinity are pretty gay

 

[Osculater]

So masculine doesn't really mean man as such.

Men and women exhibit masculinity and femininity, if they are properly realised they will exhibit both aspects to greater or lesser extents.

Femininity would be nurturing, merciful, creative, more agreeable and, when necessary, terrifyingly powerful in defense of what it loves.

Gay!!!!!!

 

[Wrath of Foamy]

If the older generation have an issue with the younger generation not being able to do more manly stuff, then maybe they should have taught their sons those key skills.

Show and encourage them to work on their cars, to do wood and metal working, to carry themselves with a degree of manliness.

You're all like my Dad. He fucked off when I was four, expressed certain disappointments in my life and had certain requests. He even said that I was a "shit kid" when referring to me in last tense. I get that I wasn't great as a kid, though my criminal record was clean and I didn't get into trouble outside, and that I wasn't as strong as he was when he was younger, that I was depressed as hell with zero self esteem, zero to poor job prospects and that I lost my virginity very late, but hell, if it bothered him that badly then he should have been more hands on so that I could have been more confident and better off. Instead, he either wasn't there or he piled the blame and guilt game on, but never helped me follow through, and I really needed that help.

So yeah, don't blame media, don't blame women, blame the men out there who either don't raise their kids right or bugger off altogether.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

While people on average have gained weight due to poor diet and a much lower rate of non-exercise-oriented movement, things that traditionally have been seen as masculine, like martial arts and fitness/lifting culture, have all exploded into the mainstream and are way more prevalent than 40 years ago, how do you explain that?

mainstream media doesn't = the general population actually participating in the popular things. it only means they WATCH the popular things. you said it yourself, the average person is fatter and lazier than before. how are they fatter and lazier than before if they're all doing fitness/lifting and martial arts? it's because they're not.

 

[wildchild88]

The least masculine shit of all is the guys who are so insecure about their masculinity they have to project it out to the world like an IMAX movie screen.

Pumping trt, obnoxious bro behaviour, and all the rest, and making sure everyone knows they’re an alpha.

Dudes would have got laughed at by real men back in the 20s.

 

[MidgardSerpent]

mainstream media doesn't = the general population actually participating in the popular things. it only means they WATCH the popular things. you said it yourself, the average person is fatter and lazier than before. how are they fatter and lazier than before if they're all doing fitness/lifting and martial arts? it's because they're not.

It doen't make sense to you because you're drawing a surface-level conclusion.

Going to the gym and having a poor diet aren't mutually exclusive; there is generally speaking some correlation between the two, but exercising and eating are two different behaviors. Plenty of people who work out still have excess belly fat. The phrase 'you can't out-lift a bad diet' exists for a reason. Hell, plenty of athletes whose livelihoods depend on eating healthy food can't even maintain both, probably one of the reasons they balloon up when they're retired, because they don't have that strict training regime to at least partially offset bad calorie surplus anymore.

You can look at it like this: there are different moving meters that create homeostasis: diet, exercise, and everything outside of exercise (work, sleep, day-to-day life), which is the vast majority of your life, even considering if you'd exercise 2 hours a day, 7 days a week. 14-15 hours of exercise would put you firmly in the not-quite-professional, but definitely competitive athlete category, and it would still amount to less than 10% of your week. We also sleep less, partially due to the changes in our environment. Lack of sleep increases ghrelin, the hunger hormone and also makes our body shift more to fat-storing mode.

So while exercise is important, it's the least influential of those 3 elements. It's not a monolith, so I'm sure it differs per country, but it's perfectly possible that fitness participation has increased in some places, while the average person continues to gain weight because environment and diet outweigh what those few hours of focused exercise can compensate for.


Kinda made me think about the link between masculinity and exercise, because Eastern European countries are generally viewed as more traditional and masculine, but they are less fit per capita compared to Northern and Western Europeans.

 

[eddymotto]

Based on men I know in real life - no

Based on posters here - probably yes