Any sane arguments for upkicks to be illegal?

[Kwic]

This rule is completely nuts and triggers me.
Upkicks to a "grounded opponent" that is.

Any argument related to damage that may be caused I feel like is refuted by the sheer fact of knees to the face being legal from the standing position.
Mike Perry agrees:

So you cannot do this :

Because...? It's a "down" opponent? The purpose of the definition of a down opponent that comes to mind is that he is defenseless to a degree and it may look barbaric, involving less skills, thus soccer kicking a guy while he is down is banned due to PR reasons, I get it (although I wish it wasn't banned). But you cannot upkick a guy that CAN smash your face in with elbows, that's beyond silly to me. They take away a big tool to defend yourself from a bottom position, which would create more action and passing from the top, mind you.
Also, you can upkick the guy when he is going down but is not yet grounded, so the impact is actually worse, damage wise, for the person on top. So "damage", again, shouldn't be used here for defending this rule.

Heel being too devastating? "Hardest part of the body" argument I've seen. Yeah, right. But I can heel kick your face to a second row with a spinning heel hook.

Any ideas as to why this rule is banned, other than the rule set being created long time ago when people knew shit and now they are unwilling to change it for some reason (which is..?)

 

[tramendous]

Just another stupid rule to help rasslers lay on top of people. The most pathetic one is how you cant use your heel to hit kidney royce gracie style from the bottom.

 

[CTEGod]

Just another stupid rule to help rasslers lay on top of people. The most pathetic one is how you cant use your heel to hit kidney royce gracie style from the bottom.

Came to say this

 

[tjumper78]

just another dumb rule just like 12-6 elbow. but then imagine 2 fighters sitting on their asses/sides and trying to kick each other. LoL. i'm all for it tho.

 

[Beherit]

there's not, up kicks have less power than spinning back kick which are totally legal

 

[Beherit]

The most pathetic one is how you cant use your heel to hit kidney royce gracie style from the bottom.

you can I Believe

 

[DagOban**]

I am all for less rules and letting the fighters fight.

 

[Luvhawky]

Upkicks aren't illegal, kicks to a grounded opponent are illegal. The sport doesn't want soccer kicks and such, unfortunately some upkicks are illegal as a consequence due to an opponent being grounded.

 

[Huligani]

Upkicks aren't illegal, kicks to a grounded opponent are illegal. The sport doesn't want soccer kicks and such, unfortunately some upkicks are illegal as a consequence due to an opponent being grounded.

They could always add the nuance of upkicks to grounded opponents being legal, but that involves making a change which these old fucks will not do unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Luvhawky]

They could always add the nuance of upkicks to grounded opponents being legal, but that involves making a change which these old fucks will not do unless absolutely necessary.

They could, but that complicates the refs job more. Already they have to define back of the head, make sure to note if a fighter is grounded and then define upkick. While I would like to see it, reffing is a tough job, I'm not interested in making it harder so more people whine. I'd rather just make kicking grounded fighters legal than creating more nuances.

 

[AKA_Steve_B]

Anything to combat the lay&pray is Ok in my book .........

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Nope.

The rules were written long ago. If it were a private org like the NFL or NHL, they would fine tune the rules every year (like the NFL and NHL do).

Instead a bunch of different people from a bunch of different backgrounds in a bunch of different states with a bunch of different motivations (often overlapping, but still) have to agree to rules changes. So far there have been I think 3 major updates. Something like 2005, 2011, and 2017.

But the finer points like 12-6 elbows and upkicks seem to not be important enough for this subset of bureaucrats. And to be fair to them, I think it is fairly far down the list. Again, if rules were updated annually this would be easy to fix (ala the NFL "tuck rule" incident and subsequent rule change).

So blame bureaucracy. Or blame the UFC for officially handing over rules to AC's and never fighting to get them back. Or best yet, don't blame anyone; just understand that the world is an imperfect place, understand specifically why and how it evolved like it did, and learn from it for other aspects of your life.

 

[DeathStroke]

Just another stupid rule to help rasslers lay on top of people. The most pathetic one is how you cant use your heel to hit kidney royce gracie style from the bottom.

Interesting that you seem to have distaste for grapplers with a Khabib AV.

Anyways, on topic, I think upkicks would be great. That being said I think kicks to a grounded opponent are an all or nothing affair. Trying to determine what was an illegal kick to a grounded opponent vs a legal one sounds complicated.

How much of the guys back has to be on the ground before it becomes legal to kick upwards? What if hes on his side? Etc. The refs cant enforce the rules we already have. Why make them more complex?

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

It's just as dumb that you can kick at somebody's head if they are standing and you are on the ground but not the other way around.

 

[Rebel_LioN]

I wish upkicks were legal when your opponent is on top of you in your guard

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Anyways, on topic, I think upkicks would be great. That being said I think kicks to a grounded opponent are an all or nothing affair. Trying to determine what was an illegal kick to a grounded opponent vs a legal one sounds complicated.

How much of the guys back has to be on the ground before it becomes legal to kick upwards? What if hes on his side? Etc. The refs cant enforce the rules we already have. Why make them more complex?

Good points. These are likely the main reasons why the bureaucrats in charge have never bothered. Imagine getting 50 people in a room (or worse, on an email thread) agreeing on the proper language.

Me? I'm glad they liberalized 10-8's, and gave more emphasis on power shots over shots landed (e.g. jabs). Those were both in the 2017 updated Unified Rules. I much prefer those updates to updates on "what is an upkick and when is it legal?"

 

[Fox by the Sea]

some of these rules are so stupid they appear tailor made for some dude at a specific moment in time.
i want - knees to downed opponent, upkick, headbutting, soccer kicks and especially this:

 

[ticho123]

They could, but that complicates the refs job more. Already they have to define back of the head, make sure to note if a fighter is grounded and then define upkick. While I would like to see it, reffing is a tough job, I'm not interested in making it harder so more people whine. I'd rather just make kicking grounded fighters legal than creating more nuances.

In this case it would be reeeeally simple to officiate though. I've never in my life seen a situation where a fighter throws a kick and I'm unsure of whether or not he's grounded. His opponent, sure with three-points or palms or fingertips or however the damn rule is worded exactly, but spotting if someone's back is planted on the mat or not when he's throwing a kick shouldn't really be a problem. We already have far weirder rules like 12-6 elbows that are way harder to officiate

 

[Luvhawky]

In this case it would be reeeeally simple to officiate though. I've never in my life seen a situation where a fighter throws a kick and I'm unsure of whether or not he's grounded. His opponent, sure with three-points or palms or fingertips or however the damn rule is worded exactly, but spotting if someone's back is planted on the mat or not when he's throwing a kick shouldn't really be a problem. We already have far weirder rules like 12-6 elbows that are way harder to officiate

True, the idea of determining whether a fighter is grounded while throwing a kick does actually seem relatively easy. I really didn't give it the thought it deserved. All I will say (in regards to the 12-6), just because grey area rules exist, doesn't mean we can add more that are less grey. But regardless, you won me over on this specific rule. It doesn't appear to be as complicated as I thought.

 

[TheJohnnyWalkerEra]

Upkicks are an awesome weapon against people trying to lay and pray

It's ridiculous that they're illegal