Anti-religious question

[klimt]

TCK is going fucking insane once more... Taking the genesis literally lmfao...

but ok...

Jesus was an ok dude, I think christiany at his core has very good teachings for human kind.

then again, going back to "jesus" suffering... Gtfo, he was tortured, but a loooooot more people through history we tortured far worst for ideals and for religion. So stop overrating what mythical jesus did...

the Bible is rife with murder, genocide, homophobia, misogyny, slavery, xenophobia, etc. etc. etc. There are good things too- just like every other religious text, items within are picked and chosen a la carte.

I'm not going to tell people what to believe, but no serious person can say that humans get morality from those books. The man-made nature of religion is as obvious to me as virtually anything I can ponder.

 

[The Diplomat]

The implication is that they were no longer perfect, again, by definition, since they disobeyed.

Is it really free will, if you disobey and then you are (basically) killed for it?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

If you believe the account, Jesus did more than just die, he also had to sacrifice his life. It wasn't just in death that he sacrificed, it was in life as well. People have had worse deaths than Jesus, I think that misses the point.

and other people hasnt? what better could have jesus done in the past?? what was so horrible about his life? dude walked around calling him self god, he got a group of followers that were sucking on his balls 24/7, is not like he was some kind of royalty who gave up everything he had, he was coming from a poor family, not like ha had anything better to do than hang around with his friends had he?

 

[andnowweknow]

As a figurative story I get it. It's a way to explain the existence of evil.

So God creates creatures who happen to be disobedient, and there's nothing more God hates than disobedience. So he banishes them and makes child birth painful. To me that makes God look petty.

The bible is a very confusing document for some people, not because it's necessarily confusing, but because it is an amalgamation of truth and figurative storytelling. There are historical facts in the bible, extraordinary ones at that, yet there is also much allusion and pure fantasy to make a point.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

the Bible is rife with murder, genocide, homophobia, misogyny, slavery, xenophobia, etc. etc. etc. There are good things too- just like every other religious text, items within are picked and chosen a la carte.

I'm not going to tell people what to believe, but no serious person can say that humans get morality from those books. The man-made nature of religion is as obvious to me as virtually anything I can ponder.

the OT is the problem, the NT its quite fine in terms of morality (except for slavery)

 

[dontsnitch]

this is slightly unrelated, but he didnt have to.

god just made that rule up for some reason. thats always confused me. christians think jesus died for the sins of mankind. why was his death considered satisfactory payment by god? why did god require payment in the first place, if he gave man the ability to sin, AND knew that they would sin before their creation? yet.....he created us with sinful weaknesses anyway.

Why does God require sacrifice for sin? I don't know, it's axiomatic in a sense, as it's required to be perfect. This question can't be answered.

Where I would question your post is in the premise that God gave man the ability to sin. I don't agree that makes sense, theologically speaking, it makes more sense that God did not have a choice in that, otherwise, he would violate his nature.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Why does God require sacrifice for sin? I don't know, it's axiomatic in a sense, as it's required to be perfect. This question can't be answered.

Where I would question your post is in the premise that God gave man the ability to sin. I don't agree that makes sense, theologically speaking, it makes more sense that God did not have a choice in that, otherwise, he would violate his nature.

dont christians believe that god created everything and is all knowing? if so, then he created the capacity for sin. who else did it if not him? he could have created a world without it.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Why does God require sacrifice for sin? I don't know, it's axiomatic in a sense, as it's required to be perfect. This question can't be answered.

Where I would question your post is in the premise that God gave man the ability to sin. I don't agree that makes sense, theologically speaking, it makes more sense that God did not have a choice in that, otherwise, he would violate his nature.

it doesnt make sense because god was creted by stone age people who could hardly complete a 1+1 sum, that is why it doesnt make sense.

 

[dontsnitch]

As a figurative story I get it. It's a way to explain the existence of evil.

So God creates creatures who happen to be disobedient, and there's nothing more God hates than disobedience. So he banishes them and makes child birth painful. To me that makes God look petty.

Perspectives are subjective, you can hold that belief if that's the way you see it.

Is it really free will, if you disobey and then you are (basically) killed for it?

This reminds me of the free speech debates. You have the right to say anything you want, but not the right to be free from consequences.

I don't know, but death is not so bad when there is also eternal life.

and other people hasnt? what better could have jesus done in the past?? what was so horrible about his life? dude walked around calling him self god, he got a group of followers that were sucking on his balls 24/7, is not like he was some kind of royalty who gave up everything he had, he was coming from a poor family, not like ha had anything better to do than hang around with his friends had he?

It doesn't sounds like you know the scriptures that well, he could hardly be said to have lived a pleasant life. Self sacrificial lives are never easy, even if they're rewarding.

 

[TheComebackKid]

it doesnt make sense because god was creted by stone age people who could hardly complete a 1+1 sum, that is why it doesnt make sense.

Yet they built things that require a masterful command of mathematics, engineering, architecture...things we would have troublw building today.

The arrogance of modern man is astounding.

 

[dontsnitch]

dont christians believe that god created everything and is all knowing? if so, then he created the capacity for sin. who else did it if not him? he could have created a world without it.

I don't know what Christians believe, I know what I believe.

This conversation is more nuanced than "God created everything".

it doesnt make sense because god was creted by stone age people who could hardly complete a 1+1 sum, that is why it doesnt make sense.

No one is telling you that you can't believe that.

 

[Winnie The Foo]

The bible is a very confusing document for some people, not because it's necessarily confusing, but because it is an amalgamation of truth and figurative storytelling. There are historical facts in the bible, extraordinary ones at that, yet there is also much allusion and pure fantasy to make a point.

Yea I just ordered a book called The History of God and it's suppose to put a lot of this stuff into context.

And I understand using an allegory to make a point, but from reading the Genesis story I do not reach the conclusion that "Satan= Evil, God = Great"

 

[dontsnitch]

Yea I just ordered a book called The History of God and it's suppose to put a lot of this stuff into context.

And I understand using an allegory to make a point, but from reading the Genesis story I do not reach the conclusion that "Satan= Evil, God = Great"

You'd have to read the entire Bible to reach that conclusion, the Genesis story alone is not enough to form such meta opinions.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Perspectives are subjective, you can hold that belief if that's the way you see it.



This reminds me of the free speech debates. You have the right to say anything you want, but not the right to be free from consequences.

I don't know, but death is not so bad when there is also eternal life.



It doesn't sounds like you know the scriptures that well, he could hardly be said to have lived a pleasant life. Self sacrificial lives are never easy, even if they're rewarding.

please tell me what made his life so horrible? dude started reaching at the age of 30, do you know what is a self sacrificail life like? a mom working her ass off in the middle of africra (these means labor work) 24/7 to feed 10 childs in africa, dealing with deseases of all kind, witnessing her family being raped and some kids kidnapped to take part of a militia, and still standing strong so her other child can get to eat once a week... just a simple example... but yeah hanging around with a couple of nutthuggers is in the same ball park...

please educate me on the selfsacrifice Jesus did during his life (not his torture or death)...

 

[Winnie The Foo]

You'd have to read the entire Bible to reach that conclusion, the Genesis story alone is not enough to form such meta opinions.

Just started for that exact reason.

 

[andnowweknow]

Yea I just ordered a book called The History of God and it's suppose to put a lot of this stuff into context.

And I understand using an allegory to make a point, but from reading the Genesis story I do not reach the conclusion that "Satan= Evil, God = Great"

I don't think that it was ever written for anyone to reach that conclusion, that book and Christianity as a whole was MASSIVELY perverted by the Romans as a mechanism for control...not to mention it is a conglomerate of stories and information that is far older than any of the Judeo-Christian faiths themselves.

 

[dontsnitch]

please tell me what made his life so horrible? dude started reaching at the age of 30, do you know what is self sacrificail life is? a mom working her ass off in the middle of africra (these means labor work) 24/7 to feed 10 childs in africa, dealing with deseases of all kind, witnessing her family being raped and some kids kidnapped to take part of a militia, and still standing strong so her other child can get to eat once a week... just a simple example... but yeah hanging around with a couple of nutthuggers is in the same ball park...

please educate me on the selfsacrifice Jesus did during his life (not his torture or death)...

I'm not here to convince you, especially when you're being largely rhetorical. You can believe that Jesus had it easy if that's what you want.

If you're really interested, I suggest reading the NT with a blank slate and discarding all your preconceived notions. Pretend you've never heard of any of this and read it, and then see what you think.

 

[dontsnitch]

Just started for that exact reason.

What's your reading plan like? Curious as to how you're attempting to tackle it.

 

[andnowweknow]

On the Garden of Eden story itself, Gnostic Christians believe the modern interpretation of Christianity has it completely backwards. Namely that the serpent, a revered figure in many world traditions and cultures, was actually the force of good while the Yaweh god was actually just a demonic entity...which honestly makes a lot more sense considering the kinds of shit Yahweh god pulls in the bible and the constant want and need for worship to satiate what appears to be a massive ego complex.

 

[TUFNewb]

I'll add that for hundreds of years people have adopted these values and even encouraged religion, even if they themselves did not believe in God, because they recognized it was beneficial for society to adhere to these values.

For hundreds of years nonbelievers adhered to those values because the penalties for apostasy and heresy were at best being shunned by society, and at worst being tortured to death.