Ankle Grabbers

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by peregrine, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    What's your counter to the double ankle grabber in bjj? (or gi based style)

    Basically the opponent is trying to toreando me as I am playing open guard. I had a long post but it got swallowed up by the internet.
    I contemplated the cross arm drag, but my opponents arms were very rigid and flexed. As well as I usually use that as a last minute toreando defense.
    I also contemplated the stuff his wrist in and bow his elbow but declined that as well.

    I ended up working a hook sweep. But even with the turn I was not able to break the grips and ended up back in guard.

    Sherdog what are some high percentage counters to this guard counter?
     
  2. sanchezero

    sanchezero Green Belt

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    don't let them grab your feet/pants. stripping those grips has to be your 1st priority. intercepting their hands/arms before they grip to hit armdrags, set up spider, etc is great, but if they grip, you must strip.
     
  3. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    as soonest they grab my pants, i just switch to spider guard.
     
  4. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    Not possible to go to spider(feet on biceps) since they already have my ankles.

    I was able to keep them away and in my modified guard, but neither of us could do anything score ended up 0-0.
    And bs NAGA reffing he won even though I threatened attacks.
     
  5. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Once he grabs your ankles, you grab each sleeves then move your butt underneath and working your feet to his biceps.
     
  6. Vector_X

    Vector_X Brown Belt

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    That pretty much sums it up.
     
  7. Gerbiljiujitsu

    Gerbiljiujitsu Purple Belt

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    qft

    great advice
     
  8. Hillary

    Hillary Brown Belt

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    Roli has completely changed my game. No more open, spider, or de La Riva. Close or butterfly to keep my ankles safe
     
  9. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    What do you do when your opponent stands up though? X guard? Just stand up, too?
     
  10. DeOpresoLibre

    DeOpresoLibre Orange Belt

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    Wait, so you don't play any open, spider or DLR? Is this a personal thing or do you think everyone should quit those guards? I'd be interested to hear more about that
     
  11. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Anyone who tells you everyone should quit those guards is an idiot.

    I'm sure it had to do something specifically with her game and tournament game planning.
     
  12. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Same here. Too easy to get footlocked/heelhooked. Feet in, or feet closed, that's my motto.

    The other benefit is that butterfly and closed work nogi, so you don't have to switch up games.
     
  13. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    Would you like to say more about this? Is this game closely likened to old school bjj? Lots of Relson students in my state, so playing open throws them off more than playing a tight closed guard. But, I do like closed guard a lot as that just makes it 1 more layer of security for them to go thru to pass my guard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  14. Gabicho

    Gabicho Brown Belt

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    If my opponent firmly grabs my ankles/pants, i use one hand to push/hold him away from me (preferably one of his arms or his head, lapel is too risky), and i post the free hand behind me and then "sprawl" back hard to break the grip on my ankles/pants.
    It's not a deep sprawl, but more than enough to break most grips. If he tries to pass or get close to me, i shoot for a takedown (usually a single or an ankle pick).

    Learned it for wrestling and works great for BJJ, because it's hard to keep the grip on someone's pants when they sprawl hard. It's kind of like the defense after someone grabs an ankle pick or a low single. Kind of a sitting sprawl.

    However, sometimes, you can't break one of the grips or he stays too close you'll be forced to spin into inverted guard (him holding one or both of your ankles actually helps to gain momentum/rotation to do it really fast). Since inverted guard is only an emergency transition for me, i always try to recover one of the more "regular" guards.
     
  15. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    So what do you do when your opponent stands up?
     
  16. Bruce Calavera

    Bruce Calavera Purple Belt

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    This is just an idea so it may be crap but if you can flare your legs wide enough and get sleeve or wrist grips could you not play a butterfly game against a standing opponent? Theoretically you could manipulate his/her balance and posture by using your hooks in the crooks of the knees.

    At very least you might be able to get them to at least drop down so you could regain closed or continue a the traditional butterfly.
     
  17. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Yeah there's a sweep there (grab both ankles and kick the insides of the knees out) but it's not a very strong guard position and you're vulnerable to the bullfighter pass if he reaches down and grabs your pants at the ankles. If you let go of one of his ankles he can just step away.

    I was trying to practice my butterfly guard but guys kept standing up, so I asked my instructor what to do when my opponent stands up. He said "use a different guard."

    It seems like most b-guard players also like x-guard, but Hillary and Zankou still haven't told us what they tend to do when an opponent stands up in their b-guard. The curiosity is killing me!
     
  18. Hillary

    Hillary Brown Belt

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    LOL that video embarrasses me so much. The comments are mean as hell and I was terrrrrible as a new blue belt.

    I'm not great at attacking leg locks because I'm not much of a passer, but Roli has a great background in BJJ (despite what Frank Mir says) and has developed leg locks on an exceptional level, to the point that World BJJ medalists and Champions pay money to come to our gym for a few days. It's rad.

    That being said, contrary to popular belief, leg locks (if done correctly) does NOT require two arms to finish. Just like a guillotine, if one learns well and gets that squeeze, it's done.

    So, unless I maintain double sleeve control with a death grip at all times, Roli is gonna grab my foot. I'm pretty good at rolling with him, especially when he takes strength out of the equation, but since he's taken to leg locks I get tapped 5-10 times a roll, depending on how many times he wants to tap me. He says that Marcelo Garcia has the right idea--keep your feet close. Butterfly doesn't leave your leg near the hip or armpit where it needs to be to be finished. The rest do, and I can attest to that.
     
  19. Hillary

    Hillary Brown Belt

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    Single leg and arm drag. Obviously the situation will arise that you may need the others, but they're not favorable against someone who knows legs.
     
  20. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    So as soon as he stands up out of your b-guard you're basically abandoning the guard altogether and using wrestling techniques to try and reverse him? Interesting.

    Of course those are good options... but why not x-guard or deep half? Do those somehow leave you vulnerable to leg locks too? Or do you just not like them?

    You mentioned that Roli says Marcelo Garcia has the right idea--and Marcelo uses x-guard and deep half guard all the time.

    Personally I'm kind of a DLR guy but I'm aware that it's going to get me kneebarred/toeholded at some point. So I'm trying to work on my b-guard but it's hard. I have trouble with x-guard due to long legs and poor flexibility. So I always revert to DLR when the guy stands up. But if it's no-gi and I'm worried about leglocks I will use the DLR to stand up and single leg.
     

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