Americans getting BJJ black belts

[Stoic1]

So much bullshit on this thread I am reminded why Sherdog is the absolute worst place in the world for grappling information in general, much less BJJ.

 

[colinm]

So much bullshit on this thread I am reminded why Sherdog is the absolute worst place in the world for grappling information in general, much less BJJ.

quoted for emphasis. why the fuck are you guys arguing about blue belts tapping brown belts or whatever the fuck ever you're talking about?

 

[TheRapist]

I'm sorry, but I don't see this. Is the point of the tread that American brown belts are so good? How many American Browns placed at the Mudials this year? I really don't know, but would have to think not as many as Brazilian... Sorry, just don't see what brought on this thread.

I think that some people are suggesting that in America, Brazilian black belts may have a bias towards promoting Brazilians faster than Americans of an equal skill level. How well Americans do at Mundials has nothing to do with whether my previous sentence is true.

 

[Capt. Whoop@ss]

The belt graduation system is a joke.
I've seen people in Juso with a yellow belt and beat brown belts.

Proove what "colour" you are by your actions on the mat.
Buying a coloured belt does not make you better.

The only belt worth having is the one holding your pants up!

 

[shotokanmix]

BJJ is an advanced art. I studied 6 martial arts, a black belt in karate, studie dboxing, kickboxing, then I enter bjj. Teachers did no teach well. It was based off of talent and athleticism. Students like myself would pick up what we could to get edges over other students in sparring. The other arts had teachers who taught and made sure you got the belts. BJJ was a rumble for belts. It was poorly structured and the brazillians and teacher's pets got belts very easily and quickly. The outsiders who had black belts in judo o wrestled had their belts the quickest. BJJ is an art where it is purely belts off of favoritism or skill picked up somewhere. I got my blue belt in a year. That was fast compared to other students paying outrageous rates and not getting theirs within three. In karate I had the first belt in 2 months. That is when i left bjj and chose to pursue other arts. I did not want to be in a bar fight or a fight and be on the ground and get stompted. I wanted to learn to use knives and swords and quick quicks. BJJ takes way too long. If a burgler breaks into my house i want to hit him and knowck hi out, i dont want to wrestle him and get stabbed or attacked by his buddy because it took too long. I said maybe wrestling or judo or sambo or mma with no belts. BJJ does not need belts. P eople spar and you can see whois better. Their ar eno belts in boxing or kickboxing and bjj is the grappling equivalent of them. BJJ is purely a business. It is a sick business where people charge outrageous rates and dont even give belts out properly. BELTS IN BJJ IN AMERICA AR EJUST MONEY MAKING TOOLS. BELTS IN BRAZIL ARE BELTS IN THEIR FIGHTING SYSTEM. BJJ I SJUST AN UGLY, MESSE DUP ART.

 

[blanko]

heck if anything american instructors are considered too lienant in giving out belts. Unless you are a phenom in brasil it takes about 8 years to get a black belt training at least 3 times a week.

 

[VanDamme]

I'm saying that your argument is essentially meaningless as you have changed the definitions you are using so that they are the same as the case you are arguing. Deciding that "blue belt" for your argument should be only the people that you think should be blue belts has not real basis in reality. A blue belt is somebody that has been promoted to blue belt, and not any higher by an instructor. No more, no less. There is no hidden meaning and no standard of what is and is not a blue belt.

It is quite possible to be defeat those of higher rank, because the rank is virtually meaningless as it currently stands. If I had to bet on a bjj match between a blue and brown without knowing anything about them or their schools, I would probably bet on the brown (although it's not a bet I would ever want to make). If the blue won, I wouldn't be completely surprised. It's about the athlete, not the strip of cloth that covers 2" of their butt.

BJJ is one of the only (if not the only) martial art where belts still matter and indicate a level of skill. It is very possible for a blue belt to submit a brown belt without being considered a "sandbagger" in my opinion.


Lets take a look at things here- what makes a white belt, and what makes a blue? Generally speaking, people get their blue belts after they have basic understanding of the positions of the ground game (i.e. are aware of positions and know which direction they want to proceed). Most people get their blue belts after "getting" a position.

For example, most white belts you train with dont have a specific move they're good at. Most blue belts, on the other hand, have that one position/techqniue they're often good at- you'll hear things like "oh hes got a good armbar" or "he knows how to pass a guard" but often times blue belts are limited to those individual skills. Around purple and black is when someone starts to get a complete game- alot of blue belts can have a great guard, but they sweep you and they're no longer a threat, or they pass a guard, but can do nothing after that. A Purple/brown belt on the other hand, has a more complete game and will be able to take advantage of attaining any dominate position.

In this respect, its very possible for a blue belt to excell really well at one position (lets say an armbar) but the rest of his game, including sweeps, guard passes, mount and back mount attacks/defense, leaves alot to be desired, hence the reason hes still a blue. In this respect, you can have a blue belt who can be a legitimate threat to a brown belt as long as hes got a closed guard. Maybe the blue will catch a few subs and people will think hes better, but when you compare their overall and complete games, that is where you can see the difference between the person thats the brown and the one thats the blue.

 

[Sambo234]

BJJ is one of the only (if not the only) martial art where belts still matter and indicate a level of skill. It is very possible for a blue belt to submit a brown belt without being considered a "sandbagger" in my opinion.


Lets take a look at things here- what makes a white belt, and what makes a blue? Generally speaking, people get their blue belts after they have basic understanding of the positions of the ground game (i.e. are aware of positions and know which direction they want to proceed). Most people get their blue belts after "getting" a position.

For example, most white belts you train with dont have a specific move they're good at. Most blue belts, on the other hand, have that one position/techqniue they're often good at- you'll hear things like "oh hes got a good armbar" or "he knows how to pass a guard" but often times blue belts are limited to those individual skills. Around purple and black is when someone starts to get a complete game- alot of blue belts can have a great guard, but they sweep you and they're no longer a threat, or they pass a guard, but can do nothing after that. A Purple/brown belt on the other hand, has a more complete game and will be able to take advantage of attaining any dominate position.

In this respect, its very possible for a blue belt to excell really well at one position (lets say an armbar) but the rest of his game, including sweeps, guard passes, mount and back mount attacks/defense, leaves alot to be desired, hence the reason hes still a blue. In this respect, you can have a blue belt who can be a legitimate threat to a brown belt as long as hes got a closed guard. Maybe the blue will catch a few subs and people will think hes better, but when you compare their overall and complete games, that is where you can see the difference between the person thats the brown and the one thats the blue.

thank you for being more articulate than i could in this thread

 

[shotokanmix]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0GY0MKYQ3-A&search=ultimate fighter

 

[blanko]

i just came back from brasil and i have noticed something. In brasil no one complains about their belts. I was there for two months and their whole attitude was "well if i am ready i will get it". Why do we americans bitch and moan about everything? Want a higher color belt? Win grappling tournaments at your belt lvl. simple as that. As for "sandbagging", could it be that they are not sand bagging but the fact that the GENERAL lvl of jiu-jitsu in the us is very inconsistant?

 

[GrapplingDummy**]

I am waiting for someone to start a American Jiu-Jitsu style that incorporates the fundamentals and takedowns of wrestling and jiu-jitsu submissions. I am going to nominate myself as the leader.

Erik Paulson already done it. Even though he calls what he does shooto but his teaching combines BJJ, Judo wrestling and striking. Someone told me that he recently got his black belt in BJJ but I can't verify this.

 

[GrapplingDummy**]

Erik Paulson already done it. Even though he calls what he does shooto but his teaching combines BJJ, Judo wrestling and striking. Someone told me that he recently got his black belt in BJJ but I can't verify this.

Great! i am replying my own post. I did verify that Erik Paulson DID in fact get his black belt in BJJ recently from Rigan Machado. WOW.. what a resume for an instructor, First american shooto champion, a BJJ black belt and well versed in wrestling, Sambo and striking.

 

[IndicaWarrior]

I think it is true what I have read in this boards. I think Americans are far to concerned with "belt color" instead of skills. You think I care about a belt color? NO, I wear a white belt but it doesn't mean anything to me, I don't go to BJJ class for belt chasing, I go to learn skills on the mat.

I train in a club where Flavio Behring himself flies down from Brazil to promote people. In my school. We have like 4 blues, 1 purple, 3 browns and 2 black belts (who got there Blacks training under strict supervision of Flavio Behring down in Brazili.. Took them 10 years to get their BB and it was in Brazil so that horseshit that Americans don't get fair treatment is total B.S. cause my instructors are NOT Americans but they are NOT from Brazil either.) Rest of the class (about 15 more) we are all white belts. Do you think that we give a damn about a color? Fuck no, we go there to train, we are humble enough not to give a flying fuck about a color, when the time comes and our instructors feel we earned our color, we will have it.

People who care about belt color are usually the ones who just can't cope with the fact that they can't go over to there friends to brag about how he is "X" color in BJJ and such nonsense..

Bottom line.. Quit whinning about color and go train more.

 

[Nihilistic]

i care less about the belt color im gonna have compared to the tourny wins i wanna do.

to me the belt is just a thing i tie up, the tournies will get me what i actually want. i think people should worry less about the belt and just look to complete their game.

 

[shotokanmix]

I think it is true what I have read in this boards. I think Americans are far to concerned with "belt color" instead of skills. You think I care about a belt color? NO, I wear a white belt but it doesn't mean anything to me, I don't go to BJJ class for belt chasing, I go to learn skills on the mat.

I train in a club where Flavio Behring himself flies down from Brazil to promote people. In my school. We have like 4 blues, 1 purple, 3 browns and 2 black belts (who got there Blacks training under strict supervision of Flavio Behring down in Brazili.. Took them 10 years to get their BB and it was in Brazil so that horseshit that Americans don't get fair treatment is total B.S. cause my instructors are NOT Americans but they are NOT from Brazil either.) Rest of the class (about 15 more) we are all white belts. Do you think that we give a damn about a color? Fuck no, we go there to train, we are humble enough not to give a flying fuck about a color, when the time comes and our instructors feel we earned our color, we will have it.

People who care about belt color are usually the ones who just can't cope with the fact that they can't go over to there friends to brag about how he is "X" color in BJJ and such nonsense..

Bottom line.. Quit whinning about color and go train more.

There is nothing wrong with the whining. Just, the people looking for the fancy belts are not the breed of people that bjj is made for. It is an art of patience. It is not an art with flashy belts and flashy moves. If you want to brag about belt color do tkd, shotokan, kung fu, tang so do, judo. It is not the art, it is the person. Those patient people who do not care about the belt color will excel in bjj. They wont be the white belts flipping out instead of conserving energy to use technique.

Boxing, kickboxing, they dont have belts in a lot of cases. Just a striker mentality to punch lights out and hit em out, and they take less technique. This makes them perfect for those wild, crazy streetfighters types. No funny patience, just aggression.

Royce gracie saw stars from taking punches before he used his arm bar. He is a prime example of what bjj is. The gentle are of patience. He is a goofy, cooky, crazy, very patient guy with a great sense of humor. He can just toy with people and laugh and play in bjj classes for 10 hours a day. That is what the stuff is for. He also had a high pain tolerance. In bjj if you have a low tolerance for pain, my teacher told me you were done. You have to patiently get punched and headbutted and cope with the pain in many cases before you do a submission. Smonetimes a 225lbs guy in your guard will headbutt you and knee your legs with all his bodyweight for minutes before you tap him.

Me, I was the white belt flipping out. I was the karate black belt, boxer, kickboxer, aikido blackbelt in the room flipping out. When I relaxed and forgot about the belt, I got to blue belt. Then I took MMA classes with no belts. I learned much more quickly and easily in them, They were more for me. The guys from the bjj class kept saying my aggression was not normal and I did not need bjj b/c I could be the next Tank Abbot. I knocked a black belt bjj bjj tooch out while sparring.

 

[sakufan]

There is nothing wrong with the whining. Just, the people looking for the fancy belts are not the breed of people that bjj is made for. It is an art of patience. It is not an art with flashy belts and flashy moves. If you want to brag about belt color do tkd, shotokan, kung fu, tang so do, judo. It is not the art, it is the person. Those patient people who do not care about the belt color will excel in bjj. They wont be the white belts flipping out instead of conserving energy to use technique.

Boxing, kickboxing, they dont have belts in a lot of cases. Just a striker mentality to punch lights out and hit em out, and they take less technique. This makes them perfect for those wild, crazy streetfighters types. No funny patience, just aggression.

Royce gracie saw stars from taking punches before he used his arm bar. He is a prime example of what bjj is. The gentle are of patience. He is a goofy, cooky, crazy, very patient guy with a great sense of humor. He can just toy with people and laugh and play in bjj classes for 10 hours a day. That is what the stuff is for. He also had a high pain tolerance. In bjj if you have a low tolerance for pain, my teacher told me you were done. You have to patiently get punched and headbutted and cope with the pain in many cases before you do a submission. Smonetimes a 225lbs guy in your guard will headbutt you and knee your legs with all his bodyweight for minutes before you tap him.

Me, I was the white belt flipping out. I was the karate black belt, boxer, kickboxer, aikido blackbelt in the room flipping out. When I relaxed and forgot about the belt, I got to blue belt. Then I took MMA classes with no belts. I learned much more quickly and easily in them, They were more for me. The guys from the bjj class kept saying my aggression was not normal and I did not need bjj b/c I could be the next Tank Abbot. I knocked a black belt bjj bjj tooch out while sparring.

tough guy, eh? (with brazilian accent)

 

[The Jake]

abilities on a mat, that is a subjective rating, it isnt like other arts where there is a check list. there are blue belts that beat black belts, purple that beat blacks.

My instructor came back from a training trip in the states once and saw precisely that. He said he was disgusted by it. In one instance, he saw a black belt struggling to put away one of his blue belts in 30min of rolling. That is something that should never, ever happen.

Obvious cases of sandbagging and rapid belt promotion show in comps all the time which is why I think people should compete, as it is good for the both the student and the school. I could name names of cases where I KNOW its happened - particularly to some very highly ranked people getting pwn3d by people in grappling tourneys much lower rank than them. But given it would be construed as fighter bashing to name names, I won't.

- J.

 

[The Jake]

BJJ is one of the only (if not the only) martial art where belts still matter and indicate a level of skill. It is very possible for a blue belt to submit a brown belt without being considered a "sandbagger" in my opinion.

My instructor begs to differ with you on that one.

Unless the brown belt is half asleep at the wheel or fooling around, I really can't see how.

- J.

 

[Oktavius**]

I don't think I've ever even heard a story of a blue coming even close to tapping an active brown..

I think you need to look around a bit more then.

 

[SouthSwell]

Typically, it takes about 8 to 10 years to earn a Black Belt in BJJ, I have a friend, who in fact is American, trains in Gracie Barra San Diego, got his black belt after 9 years of training...so....

is he bald with tattoos?