American Jiu-Jitsu

Jimmy Cerra said:
Um, you are wrong. BJJ's rules generally favor positions, not a style of combat. You can be a top guy, a bottom guy, etc. You get points for achieving position.

These rules favor a style of combat. It is takedown by ippon. You get minimal points for sweeps that land you in the same position. You can't do leg locks of any kind in these rules.

BJJ's rules are not perfect, but they are much better than these rules.
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BJJ rules will penalize you for stalling if you hold your opponent in side control or even mount for too long. Not perfect, indeed.
 
lightw8 said:
a win is a win at the end of the day, and Im sure he wont have that same problem making the weight cut again right? The pass Im raving about is he had his right leg posted way out, and his left foot was holding down on Martin's left thigh, then he just slid his left foot right over for mount. I was literally eye-popping at that move.
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Jake's guard passing is really a sight to see. Nick's (Diaz) guard has helped Jake find the artistic part of AMERICAN JIU JITSU! (caps for emphasis)

I would like to watch the fight again. I had to close my eyes a few times.

Have you guys noticed that Graciefighters don't care about sub attempts against them? It's looking bad for them and then all of a sudden they are in a dominant position.

That should be part of AJJ./kosen judo
 
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Jimmy Cerra said:
Why would it be a better scoring system to run sub grappling tournaments? It is obviously incredibly biased towards takedowns and judo in particular. :rolleyes:
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oh, you actually expected me to know the rules before I made such a comment? :D

I looked at 'em about 6mos ago and I guess I was more excited by the idea than anything else. Take a typical sub grappling tournament and create more scoring possibilities for takedowns.

All takedowns are NOT equal.
 
fourfif said:
I disagree. There are some pretty damn good BJJ players with some crappy takedowns. Maybe what you're saying is they "should" have good takedowns, but in reality alot train takedowns very little or not at all.
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IDK who do you refer to? Marcelo does takedowns. Popovitch does. Roger Gracie does. BJ Penn does do them sometimes too. Saulo incorporates judo into his program as a requirement. Jacare does judo & uses takedowns. Many of my instructors are also judo black belts, have wrestling backgrounds, or simply train to at least be competent in takedowns.

I don't know many really good BJJ players who have crappy takedowns. Some don't focus on them enough. Most, that I know about, at least know them better than the average grappler even if they don't use them in every fight. However, I don't know many "BJJ facts," so please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Auspex said:
oh, you actually expected me to know the rules before I made such a comment? :D

I looked at 'em about 6mos ago and I guess I was more excited by the idea than anything else. Take a typical sub grappling tournament and create more scoring possibilities for takedowns.

All takedowns are NOT equal.
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In scholastic wrestling all takedowns are equal! In sumo, as long as only your feet touch the ground, any takedown works. Do you think those styles are very biased against takedowns?
 
lechien said:
Well, according to Jake Shield (in my memory is correct), he said that it is more aggressive and more top control i.e wrestling compare to BJJ.
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I don't know how that could be called a different style. There are lots of BJJ guys who are very aggressive and put the focus on top control.

Luta Livre is kind of like hyper-agressive BJJ anyways.
 
Jimmy, I'm not going to argue that ALL bjj players have mediocre takedowns. If they cross train in another sport their takedowns might be good. Just bjj and there's NO WAY they are going to have judoka wrestler samboist type td skills. Just.... No. I saw you're takedowns... You tellin me that was from gi bjj? Cmon dude. That was wrestling 101.

AJJ is legit. You guys can argue not till you're blue in the face, but I experienced it first hand at Fairtex and it's as real as any other style out there. I didn't even think about AJJ v BJJ I just like to grapple and especially love takedowns, and of every place I've been it's the only place where most rolls started from the feet, always nogi, more mma focused vs sport grappling focus... It's real. I'm drinking the Kool Aid.
 
fourfif said:
Jimmy, I'm not going to argue that ALL bjj players have mediocre takedowns. If they cross train in another sport their takedowns might be good. Just bjj and there's NO WAY they are going to have judoka wrestler samboist type td skills. Just.... No. I saw you're takedowns... You tellin me that was from gi bjj? Cmon dude. That was wrestling 101.
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I take that as a complement. I worked on my takedowns more during BJJ/grappling practices than during the time when I actually wrestled. I only wrestled junior & senior years in high school. My total record was 10-29. I simply started too late. Six years later I began BJJ... I had to relearn everything all over again! You have no idea how frustrating that was. Many people have tried to pigeonhole myself. Only by being persistent & training smart did I improve my takedowns. That's why I don't like stereotypes that limit people.
 
Excerpt from my blog:
_______

My take is that calling what he does American Jiu Jitsu is as legitimate as any other style name in martial arts. Very rarely can a "style" lay claim to inventing something new. What is different between "styles" is where they choose to put an emphasis or use their training time. Such as TKD emphasizing kicks vs. many other styles of karate or Judo emphasizing throws vs. BJJ emphasizing ground work.

A good Judo guy is going to know plenty of ne-waza but his throws are going to be better because that is his emphasis - a good BJJ player is going to know throws but his ground game is going to be better because that is where he puts his time.

AJJ is saying that they spend more of their emphasis/training time on wrestling/takedowns than a typical BJJ school (and I don't think they really do any gi work at all). It is all about where you spend the limited amount of training time you have. A style/name is just a convenient label that let's people categorize things and let's the label's creator/owner differentiate himself and market more effectively.

Visually it might look like this (don't critique the artwork I took like 5 minutes ;-)):

BJJ-AJJ.gif

​

Peace,
Zen Mojo
zenmojobjj.blogspot.com/

_________
Get your grips, use your shoulder for pressure and whisper something dirty to the mat as you pass...
 
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fourfif said:
Yeah.... those BJJ takedowns are something all right.... :rolleyes:

To be a complete grappler you need takedowns and subs.

Freestyle Judo and Sambo are closer to complete grappling arts then either BJJ or wrestling.

I see AJJ as a philosophy that tries to incorporate the best of two great grappling sports.
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For you, is AJJ a philosophy or an art?
 
lechien said:
Calibur trains 50% stand up and 50% ground and he still call it BJJ.

I guess he is wrong and he should call AJJ instead?
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Nah, he should call it whatever the hell he wants.

Why don't you go back to calling what you do Judo?

Oh wait.... takedowns.... Maybe you should call it 'Judo Light', or 'Jr Judo'.
 
fourfif said:
Of course. I admire your approach to td's.



But two years of wrestling must have helped a bit. That's enough to get you a blue in BJJ.
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How can 2 years of wrestling is enough to get you a blue in BJJ?

It is like saying that a blue in BJJ is equal to BB in Judo!
 
ZenMojo said:
My take is that calling what he does American Jiu Jitsu is as legitimate as any other style name in martial arts. Very rarely can a "style" lay claim to inventing something new. What is different between "styles" is where they choose to put an emphasis or use their training time. Such as TKD emphasizing kicks vs. many other styles of karate or Judo emphasizing throws vs. BJJ emphasizing ground work.

A good Judo guy is going to know plenty of ne-waza but his throws are going to be better because that is his emphasis - a good BJJ player is going to know throws but his ground game is going to be better because that is where he puts his time.

AJJ is saying that they spend more of their emphasis/training time on wrestling/takedowns than a typical BJJ school (and I don't think they really do any gi work at all). It is all about where you spend the limited amount of training time you have. A style/name is just a convenient label that let's people categorize things and let's the label's creator/owner differentiate himself and market more effectively.

Visually it might look like this (don't critique the artwork I took like 5 minutes ;-)):

BJJ-AJJ.gif

​

Peace,
Zen Mojo
zenmojobjj.blogspot.com/

_________
Get your grips, use your shoulder for pressure and whisper something dirty to the mat as you pass...
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Awesome.

Very well done, thanks for the great post.
 
lechien said:
For you, is AJJ a philosophy or an art?
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What is BJJ to you?


MUFC said:
Every person should just call it grappling.
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In a perfect world my man...

"Jake Shields says there are some Brazilians who have told him he could never be a black belt because he’s never trained in a gi. But Shields says he will tap most of them out with his non-black belt… and I believe him."

Jake Shields explains American Jiu-Jitsu and why he wants to fight Georges St-Pierre *VIDEO* : Pro MMA Now
 
fourfif said:
Nah, he should call it whatever the hell he wants.

Why don't you go back to calling what you do Judo?

Oh wait.... takedowns.... Maybe you should call it 'Judo Light', or 'Jr Judo'.
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Hold on here,

He was defining the AJJ by the amount of stand up training which I think you are also using as your definition.

I cannot call it Judo because in BJJ you do not win by pin or ippon throw.

so if I train 50% stand up for BJJ rules, then it is BJJ!

In fact, tonite I am training only stand up in my BJJ class.

We use whaterver wrestling or Judo throws but every techniques is used in consideration that it is BJJ rules.
 
fourfif said:
What is BJJ to you?




In a perfect world my man...
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Well, that is because you were calling sambo and judo and bjj and grappling as an art.

then suddenly you said that AJJ was a philosophy.

So I just wanted to confirm it with you.
 
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