Almost All of the UK's Surface Combatants Are in Port While Germany Has No Working Subs

[Billy no mates]

A few months ago British government was saying that it intended to send its new carrier to challenge China in South China Sea in 2018. My first reaction was "Really? To make them laugh?" It was funny to me since the carrier won't have any operational planes until 2019, and now it has no operational escorts either.

We'll just have to ram em , show Johnny Foreigner our great British spunk .

 

[snakedafunky]

Powerhouse is a very relative term with regards to European military capability , France and the UK are just the best of a bad bunch .

Who would have a powerful military than France or the UK?
I guess China and Russia outside the US of course. But after that I think its those two?

Its also a bit of the case with military power is the sort of "unused" potential.
If Germany or France would feel the need to rearm for a potential thread they could have a stronger military than most other countries.
Because they have the industrial capacity and technology already. They could rearm very efficiently and fast.

Compared to countries like Turkey, Poland or India. Who might right now have a strong military but their advancement is somehow limited because they don't have the same ability as the big European countries.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Luckily South Africa is such a place

Heh. You seem to think I am coming from a place of national/cultural egotism. I'm not, and you are actually making my point for me.
South Africa is a very good example of a nation with no national identity.

 

[Supereem]

I think modern day politicians somehow believe there'll never be another major conflict in their life time, so it's easy to cut military budgets and number of personel.

I wonder how China and Russia are fairing these days?

These countries suffer no real threat from invasion. But in the recent years British seamanship has been decimated and they are no longer a real seafaring nation.

 

[Stoic1]

Everything is cyclic.

Just wait. We will have another huge war. People who think otherwise are idealists with no grasp of history or human nature.

 

[pinger]

We'll just have to ram em , show Johnny Foreigner our great British spunk .

Tally-ho with a stiff upper lip

 

[sub_thug]

Actually this is a prime example of why I think the 2 percent goal is nonsense: Even if we decided to allocate more money to our submarines, we would not get superior results due to logistical or operational issues. The 2 percent goal needs to be replaced by operational KPIs / readiness targets.

What good would spending 2 percent be if it resulted in the current state of affairs?

And would it hurt if we were able to sustain an effective and ready military, but below the 2 percent?

Agreed on tying defense spending to readiness efforts. I would also include force modernization efforts to that as well. And it doesn't have to be hardware either. Upgrading the software in planes and missiles to prevent a hack is always a nice thing.

 

[sub_thug]

Everything is cyclic.

Just wait. We will have another huge war. People who think otherwise are idealists with no grasp of history or human nature.

Only the dead have seen the end of war

-Plato

 

[HockeyBjj]

So even Europe simply banks on US immediately helping out should China or Russia actually do something?

You’d think they’d be nicer to us then

 

[Byron Carter]

"Good times make soft men, soft men make hard times, hard times make hard men, hard men make good times."

Such is the cycle of civilization.

 

[cincymma79]

So even Europe simply banks on US immediately helping out should China or Russia actually do something?

You’d think they’d be nicer to us then

 

[BearGrounds]

I have read from several reputable posters that they are in the midst of a hostile invasion by foreign pillagers, so maybe?

Soft invasion. Conquest via immigration.

 

[Billy no mates]

Its also a bit of the case with military power is the sort of "unused" potential.
If Germany or France would feel the need to rearm for a potential thread they could have a stronger military than most other countries.
Because they have the industrial capacity and technology already. They could rearm very efficiently and fast.

Compared to countries like Turkey, Poland or India. Who might right now have a strong military but their advancement is somehow limited because they don't have the same ability as the big European countries.

The UK has definite gaps in its industrial base that would make some rearming quickly or at all in some areas quite difficult , when certain skills go they're gone for good which doesn't matter that much while we are all being sane and rational but that's not a state of affairs we can necessarily rely on to continue indefinitely .

 

[sub_thug]

So even Europe simply banks on US immediately helping out should China or Russia actually do something?

You’d think they’d be nicer to us then

The Europeans seem to want to claim some sort of moral superiority over not doing the fighting themselves. They expect us to do it for them and don't really care much for us because of it. It's a very weird sentiment, but hey, they're Europeans. Weirdness comes with the package.

 

[cincymma79]

So we are in agreement that Trump was correct on this one

 

[Billy no mates]

The Europeans seem to want to claim some sort of moral superiority over not doing the fighting themselves. They expect us to do it for them and don't really care much for us because of it. It's a very weird sentiment, but hey, they're Europeans. Weirdness comes with the package.

Maybe it's not the fighting its self rather the targets selected for Operation Drop the Hammer .

 

[snakedafunky]

The UK has definite gaps in its industrial base that would make some rearming quickly or at all in some areas quite difficult , when certain skills go they're gone for good which doesn't matter that much while we are all being sane and rational but that's not a state of affairs we can necessarily rely on to continue indefinitely .

Yeah true, I don't want to sound like a liberal tree hugger.
But its kind of good to see those old enemies like Germany- France, Germany - Poland or Germany - UK have come together to a certain degree and consider the importance of a defense of a unified Europe. I mean we are witnessing the beginning of that right now.
But to look back 100 years, and think there might be going to be Germans, Frenchman or Polish people born that have a loyalty towards the European people and a European unification sounds good to me. Besides all the faults of the EU as a peace process it turned out excellent.

 

[sub_thug]

Maybe it's not the fighting its self rather the targets selected for Operation Drop the Hammer .

What do you mean? A defensive posture implies that no target has been selected. The post I quoted was using China and Russia as hypothetical aggressors in this scenario, so I don't know what you're implying.

 

[Supereem]

The Europeans seem to want to claim some sort of moral superiority over not doing the fighting themselves. They expect us to do it for them and don't really care much for us because of it. It's a very weird sentiment, but hey, they're Europeans. Weirdness comes with the package.

Who is going to invade Europe?

 

[21 Savage]

Who is going to invade Europe?

chyna