Al Snow says all matches in Pancrase were 100% works

[shinobimusashi]

He's not talking about pancrace, he's talking about UWFI which was strong style Puroresu, which eventually lead to the Pancrase league.

This is what he was taking about.



If you're interested here's a history lesson of how pro wrestling eventually became MMA

It all goes back to Karl Gotch and Billy Robinson, who trained together in old school catch wrestling, both went their different ways in the pro wrestling world and ultimately both of them ended up in Japan training pro wrestlers.

Gotch trained Yoshiaki Fujiwara, who trained Suzuki and Funaki, who recruited and trained Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock, and Rutten, going on to found Pancrase. Robinson would train most of the UWFI wrestlers that would go on to become Pride.

I don't think a lot of modern fans really understand the influence that Rings had on Pride. Pride basically swallowed up Rings, took their best fighters(Fedor, Overeem, etc), stole their ideas, then put them out of business in 2002, right around the time that Pride really started to kick ass.

The guy who founded Rings, Akira Maeda is connected to Takada, Fujiwara, and Tiger Mask. Those four guys all came out of the same dojo and basically laid the groundwork for what MMA would become. Their bidding war over Rickson Gracie would basically shape the history of MMA.

If you take away pro wrestling's direct influence on MMA history, you take away Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Suzuki, Funaki, Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutten, Sakuraba, Takada, Fedor, Pancrase, Pride, Rings, Shooto never happens. I think it's safe to say that maybe MMA never happens, especially when you consider the influence that pro wrestling had on Mitsuyo Maeda, who taught the Gracies how to grapple.

Maeda was living in a YMCA in Alabama at one point during his travels, learning tricks of the trade from the pro wrestlers he befriended in the 1900's. He basically taught the Gracie's Judo with some old school pro wrestling tricks and submissions worked into it. I mean, if you take all of that away, where does that leave MMA?

I was reading this and nodding in agreement and then it finally hit me, I'm pretty sure I actually wrote that. Thanks for posting it and saving me the time of having to type that all out again.

After watching through the old school UWF, PWFG, Rings, I'm fairly certain most of Pancrase was a work. I don't mean that in a derogatory way to discredit those guys or anything, it's just interesting to me how much MMA roots go into pro wrestling, pro wrestling pretty much evolved into MMA.

To me the best of the old shoot style stuff was Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi, those guys were freakishly ahead of their time, those matches were worked but some of them look 100% legit, the quality of the matches were better than UWFI and Rings in my opinion, love all of Shamrock's matches there and the mixed style wrestler vs boxer matches they did.

 

[That209]

what did you mean by this?

He's one of those idiots that think Conor's fights are fixed because he can't accept how good he is.

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

It was real to me

And it was real to Bas Rutten.

 

[Steve-French]

I was reading this and nodding in agreement and then it finally hit me, I'm pretty sure I actually wrote that. Thanks for posting it and saving me the time of having to type that all out again.

After watching through the old school UWF, PWFG, Rings, I'm fairly certain most of Pancrase was a work. I don't mean that in a derogatory way to discredit those guys or anything, it's just interesting to me how much MMA roots go into pro wrestling, pro wrestling pretty much evolved into MMA.

To me the best of the old shoot style stuff was Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi, those guys were freakishly ahead of their time, those matches were worked but some of them look 100% legit, the quality of the matches were better than UWFI and Rings in my opinion, love all of Shamrock's matches there and the mixed style wrestler vs boxer matches they did.

Yeah I think you did. It wasn't from me, but I couldn't find who quoted it. As I saved the text to a notepad a few years ago as it is good ammo. I've used this a few times on these boards when arguing about the influence that pro wrestling has had on mma. I'll make sure to @shinobimusashi you if I ever have to bust it out again so I can give you credit where credit is due.

 

[JonnyboyATL]

ive seen plenty of those pancrase bouts and they didnt look like works to me. Plus i dont really see Bas Rutten as being the type of guy to be apart of something illegitimate like that

Hope this was sarcasm. He's good friends with Kevin James and has been in some of his movies and TV shows.

He's definitely not against faking it for the money.

 

[FootstompShonie]

This is fake news from OP.

Al Snow is talking about UWF International being a work (which it was) he never mentions Pancrase once in the video, why are mods keeping this up?

 

[LORDTENSAIMMA]

Al snow telling Dan severn what's up at UFC 4

 

[shinobimusashi]

Yeah I think you did. It wasn't from me, but I couldn't find who quoted it. As I saved the text to a notepad a few years ago as it is good ammo. I've used this a few times on these boards when arguing about the influence that pro wrestling has had on mma. I'll make sure to @shinobimusashi you if I ever have to bust it out again so I don't have to Kenny Florian you.

I found it. No problem bubba, I was just regurgitating shit I've read in the Observers and the book called Shooters anyways. The truth is out there.

 

[LORDTENSAIMMA]

Bas might not have been in on it. Shammy brothers either probably.

Having a big roided out Western star run clinics on your bushido spirit undersized Japanese fighters was a recipe for success, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them threw matches vs the big dogs like Bas, Ken and Frank.

Pancrase is not MMA.

Go 45 seconds in. Thisisso fake

 

[YellowBaneno]

I'm glad the UFC would never do anything like that. I like my finishes 100% real dammit!

View attachment 222233

 

[WinZip]

Let's see...UFC has actually been CAUGHT working fights so what do I care what Dana's minions have to say about Pancrase.

Which fight was "caught" to be worked? The one in Korea? The one where the UFC reported their suspicions to the police, and that's why there was an investigation? That worked fight? Or the fights that were (probably) worked before Zuffa took over?

Dana is a shady motherfucker and guilty of a lot of things, greed above all, but I've never seen real evidence the UFC under Zuffa (or WME) actually intentionally fixed a fight.

 

[lostdog000]

even when guys got their ankles broken?

 

[Captain Herb]

How is it salty to want non-fixed fights? Doesn't everyone?

 

[nawab1111]

Which fight was "caught" to be worked? The one in Korea? The one where the UFC reported their suspicions to the police, and that's why there was an investigation? That worked fight? Or the fights that were (probably) worked before Zuffa took over?

Dana is a shady motherfucker and guilty of a lot of things, greed above all, but I've never seen real evidence the UFC under Zuffa (or WME) actually intentionally fixed a fight.

Yes, the one in Korea where Dana said "oh yeah, we totally did something about that" after he got caught and his legions of idiots totally believed him.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Who knows.

For a fact we know Shammy and Matt Hume had a worked match.

I would take Pancrase records with a huge grain of salt, not only because of their ties to wrasslen' and worked/thrown fights, but the ridiculous rule set. It's not MMA.

Hmmmm... I see..

coz u actually said "a lot of them threw matches "... Was hopin´for more details, since there were "so many".

MMA is Vale Tudo´s heir, so ure technically right, Early Pancrase was not Vale Tudo stricto sensu..

Still, I enjoyed it since I believe they had ALMOST the perfect rules (could have been perfect if they had prohibited punches-to-the-head only on the ground) since u technically couldnt GNP, so u had to be more creative on the ground, which required real...MMA skills since the very beginning..
Strikers had to learn the ground game to be competitive.

 

[WinZip]

Yes, the one in Korea where Dana said "oh yeah, we totally did something about that" after he got caught and his legions of idiots totally believed him.

You mean how they actually went to the police and had an investigation started?

Wow. What a conspiracy.

Dana is a piece of shit and there's no redeeming qualities about him. However, he's not a stupid piece of shit. Fixing a fight would mean he'd be out of the fight business if he got caught. He'll piss on the fighters, the fans, and everyone else without thinking twice. He'll lie, cheat, and steal his way to get what he wants. He's a greedy motherfucker. But he doesn't fix fights, no matter how much you want him to.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Absolutely a lot of pancrase fights were works, about 70% of the fighters in it were pro Japanese wrestlers. Some of the fights are probably real though with more of the American and European guys..

"Absolutely a lot of pancrase fights "

Interesting... Most? All?

 

[RememberYammaPit]

I was shocked to see Al Snow has a big ego and is a bit of a dick in real life. He really didn't do much in his pro wrestling career to have such an ego. He seems to be one of those guys that fancies himself as the smartest guy in the room.

Someone mentioned UWFi in here. Vader was the heavyweight champ there for awhile, so clearly it was a work. I recently read an interview where Vader said the ending was scripted, but "you had to earn the finish" by surviving. I tend to think that's bullshit. Here's Vader working a legit world caliber Soviet wrestler. Vader says he was fortunate to have "good hands," otherwise he would have lost. What we know of MMA, if this fight was halfway real, that Russian took him down like butter and would have fucked him up.

 

[nawab1111]

You mean how they actually went to the police and had an investigation started?

Wow. What a conspiracy.

Dana is a piece of shit and there's no redeeming qualities about him. However, he's not a stupid piece of shit. Fixing a fight would mean he'd be out of the fight business if he got caught. He'll piss on the fighters, the fans, and everyone else without thinking twice. He'll lie, cheat, and steal his way to get what he wants. He's a greedy motherfucker. But he doesn't fix fights, no matter how much you want him to.

Yes, he "says" he went to the cops. Sure. That's why this guy is totally in jail right now, right? And why he's not on UFC's roster anymore, right?

Get serious. Dana sold you a load of bull as soon as he got caught and you accepted it without question.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

I was reading this and nodding in agreement and then it finally hit me, I'm pretty sure I actually wrote that. Thanks for posting it and saving me the time of having to type that all out again.

After watching through the old school UWF, PWFG, Rings, I'm fairly certain most of Pancrase was a work. I don't mean that in a derogatory way to discredit those guys or anything, it's just interesting to me how much MMA roots go into pro wrestling, pro wrestling pretty much evolved into MMA.

To me the best of the old shoot style stuff was Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi, those guys were freakishly ahead of their time, those matches were worked but some of them look 100% legit, the quality of the matches were better than UWFI and Rings in my opinion, love all of Shamrock's matches there and the mixed style wrestler vs boxer matches they did.

"I'm fairly certain most of Pancrase was a work"

Interesting..