Television AHSOKA Live-ActionSeries (Premieres Aug. 23, 2023)

[ChickenBrother]

Lucas understood this. For as much as I trashed the prequels, people didn't survive being stabbed with a goddamn lightsaber. They'd lose a limb or get cut. Lightsabers are what, controlled plasma or some shit right? It's really easy to get cut by one. They could've made the fight SO much better by just having Shin toy with Sabine and land little cuts on her, slowing her down. From there, there's a few more creative options than what they did:

Have her go to strike Sabine down but be interrupted. This is the most boring option but still better than stabbing her.

Have Sabine pull some mando ninja shit like a smoke bomb or something and barely escape to hide before Ahsoka shows up. The drama would be in the desperation to get away while wounded whilst displaying her mando skills.

Have Shin ready to land the killing blow but hesitate to take it allowing Sabine to live. This make us and Sabine have questions about Shin and makes her a more interesting character. This is probably the option I'd go with.

But they went with... stabbing, and surviving. The least interesting and dramatic option and easily the dumbest. Sigh.

As an aside, Shin is my favorite character in the show so far. Her mannerisms are weird and she seems intriguing, like there's somethin' going on there. She's also smart.

I think they just wanted the first episode to end on a cliffhanger, but they got lazy and channeled their inner Reva. I actually liked how Sabine "bit down on her mouthpiece" and kept swinging her lightsaber while doubled over in pain. They clearly wanted to show her toughness and grit, this after going toe to toe with Shin through two scene breaks. But getting impaled with a lightsaber was too damn much. I think the scene worked but instead of impalement, they should have had Shin land a slash, just deep enough to incapacitate Sabine but not fatal and left the rest of the scene as is.

I don't have a strong opinion on Shin yet but yeah, she seems conflicted. Clearly doesn't vibe with Morgan Elsbeth. Maybe she'll be like Ventress, who IMO was the coolest female baddie we've seen in SW. Her being a total butterface somehow made her a more sympathetic character lol.

I mean it was during the imperial era and at this point they might be bringing the Jedi back now. Also Ashoka didn't consider herself a Jedi back then because she was kicked out of the order. She literally told Vader "I am no Jedi". Ashoka only was in Rebels for a few episodes. She comes back at the end of the series probably knew Sabine was force sensitive and offered to train her. That's what makes sense anyway.

Sabines love interest literally brought Ashoka back from the dead this could be her way of repaying the favor even though Ezras missing.

In terms of her being a force sensitive and the others not noticing Kanan was a Padawan who survived Order 66 he and by extenstion Ezra really didn't know what they were doing compared to our typical force sensitive protagonists.

Did they ever establish that Sabine is force sensitive? I thought Huyang told her she sucked at the force worse than 10,000 donkey dicks? They establish that she previously trained under Ahsoka as her padawan, but maybe the fact that she sucked at the force is what made Ahsoka walk away? Maybe they'll build her like Chirrut Imwe who was "attuned" to it but also sucked at the force.

 

[deviake]

I can't find myself getting upset about this after they brought Maul back from the Obi Wan duel and he proceeded to survive 10 years by focusing on his hatred.

It is worth noting most Star Wars lightsaber duels don't end with deaths only limb loss. Qui Gon and Obi Wan were possibly both dying on purpose to do the Ghost thing. Anakin survived being lit on fire by lava etc. Dooku was executed afterwards by decapitation.

I just realized that Palpatine might be the only character to fully kill named characters via lightsaber stabs to the torso(opposed to decapitation). And he's killed 4. Am I missing anyone? Ironically Palpatine hates lightsabers.

Qui Gon didn't die intentionally as far as I know. In fact with his death was that Anakin was left without a mature father figure who could've helped him with his issues. That's why the song that plays during that fight is called The Duel of Fates.

Anakin was the most powerful Jedi ever basically so him living through being cut up isn't a stretch to me.

While I like what they did with Maul after they brought him back, I'm not keen on him living through being cut in half. I can accept it due to his connection to the witches.

As far as how many Jedi (different from people) have been killed by lightsaber stabs I don't know, but I also don't care too much.

I'm not upset per se it's just eye roll inducing to me and it's the third time in short order that someone has been stabbed in the exact same spot in the stomach no less. If this was a one off and was done faster it might be different, but it's the third time and it's a lazily written, overdone, uninteresting way of subduing Sabine. I thought of more interesting ways of handling that fight off the top of my head with basically no thought. To me it's just like, "c'mon on guys, do something different."

 

[deviake]

I think they just wanted the first episode to end on a cliffhanger, but they got lazy and channeled their inner Reva. I actually liked how Sabine "bit down on her mouthpiece" and kept swinging her lightsaber despite being doubled over in pain. They clearly wanted to show her toughness and grit, this after going toe to toe with Shin through two scene breaks. But getting impaled with a lightsaber was too damn much. I think the scene worked but instead of a full impaling, they should have had Shin land a slash, just deep enough to incapacitate Sabine but not fatal and left the rest of the scene as is.

I don't have a strong opinion on Shin yet but yeah, she seems conflicted. Clearly doesn't vibe with Morgan Elsbeth. Maybe she'll be like Ventress, who IMO was the coolest female baddie we've seen in SW. Her being a total butterface somehow made her a more sympathetic character lol.



Did they ever establish that Sabine is force sensitive? I thought Huyang told her she sucked at the force worse than 10,000 donkey dicks? They establish that she previously trained under Ahsoka as her padawan, but maybe the fact that she sucked at the force is what made Ahsoka walk away? Maybe they'll build her like Chirrut Imwe who was "attuned" to it but also sucked at the force.

Agreed. Sabine showing heart was one thing I definitely liked, just unfortunate that it was such a lazy scene. My writing brain constantly analyzes and when I can think of something more interesting immediately it bugs me.

Yeah that'd be awesome if Shin made it to that level. We've not seen much of her but she seems, well, unique for lack of a better description. Ventress was awesome, honestly just a great character outright, and great villain. Aside from being cool and having skills, she had depth.

Huyang roasted her harder than lava roasted Vader lol. I like the idea of her going the Chirrut route, where she can't really "use" the force in a telekinetic sense but still has maybe a bit above average connection to it that manifests itself more passively.

 

[ferrisjso]

I think they just wanted the first episode to end on a cliffhanger, but they got lazy and channeled their inner Reva. I actually liked how Sabine "bit down on her mouthpiece" and kept swinging her lightsaber despite being doubled over in pain. They clearly wanted to show her toughness and grit, this after going toe to toe with Shin through two scene breaks. But getting impaled with a lightsaber was too damn much. I think the scene worked but instead of a full impaling, they should have had Shin land a slash, just deep enough to incapacitate Sabine but not fatal and left the rest of the scene as is.

I don't have a strong opinion on Shin yet but yeah, she seems conflicted. Clearly doesn't vibe with Morgan Elsbeth. Maybe she'll be like Ventress, who IMO was the coolest female baddie we've seen in SW. Her being a total butterface somehow made her a more sympathetic character lol.



Did they ever establish that Sabine is force sensitive? I thought Huyang told her she sucked at the force worse than 10,000 donkey dicks? They establish that she previously trained under Ahsoka as her padawan, but maybe the fact that she sucked at the force is what made Ahsoka walk away? Maybe they'll build her like Chirrut Imwe who was "attuned" to it but also sucked at the force.

Sabine was raised as a Mando. The Mando do not like the Jedi and would not know how to identify what children were force sensitive. They make a point to say there has only been 1 Mandalorian Jedi the guy who built the Dark Saber 1000 years earlier. Every force sensitive Mando in between would not have been trained.

By "previously" they might mean between the end of Rebels and this show. Not previously in Rebels. During Rebels Sabine is trained in lightsaber combat because she finds the Dark Saber(which makes someone the rightful ruler of Manalore) during Rebels and wants to keep it for a few episodes before giving it away to I think Bo Katan. But it is never stated that Sabine is force sensitive. To the contrary it is never stated she isn't. Hate citing the ST but Finn is proof you can go into adulthood without realizing you're force sensitive if there' no one there to identify this.

Apparently everyone in Star Wars has midiclorians but there's a certain threshold where that means you have some powers opposed to none like the average person. Since Star Wars focuses on the main force sensitive characters who are well above said threshold this perspective is not explored very much. But the Jedi sent their less talented younglings to be farmers or something if no one wants them as a Padawan. In legends Obi Wan was in danger of being sent there(which is ironic on so many levels).

 

[ChickenBrother]

Agreed. Sabine showing heart was one thing I definitely liked, just unfortunate that it was such a lazy scene. My writing brain constantly analyzes and when I can think of something more interesting immediately it bugs me.

Yeah that'd be awesome if Shin made it to that level. We've not seen much of her but she seems, well, unique for lack of a better description. Ventress was awesome, honestly just a great character outright, and great villain. Aside from being cool and having skills, she had depth.

Huyang roasted her harder than lava roasted Vader lol. I like the idea of her going the Chirrut route, where she can't really "use" the force in a telekinetic sense but still has maybe a bit above average connection to it that manifests itself more passively.

Sabine was raised as a Mando. The Mando do not like the Jedi and would not know how to identify what children were force sensitive. They make a point to say there has only been 1 Mandalorian Jedi the guy who built the Dark Saber 1000 years earlier. Every force sensitive Mando in between would not have been trained.

By "previously" they might mean between the end of Rebels and this show. Not previously in Rebels. During Rebels Sabine is trained in lightsaber combat because she finds the Dark Saber(which makes someone the rightful ruler of Manalore) during Rebels and wants to keep it for a few episodes before giving it away to I think Bo Katan. But it is never stated that Sabine is force sensitive. To the contrary it is never stated she isn't. Hate citing the ST but Finn is proof you can go into adulthood without realizing you're force sensitive if there' no one there to identify this.

Apparently everyone in Star Wars has midiclorians but there's a certain threshold where that means you have some powers opposed to none like the average person. Since Star Wars focuses on the main force sensitive characters who are well above said threshold this perspective is not explored very much. But the Jedi sent their less talented younglings to be farmers or something if no one wants them as a Padawan. In legends Obi Wan was in danger of being sent there(which is ironic on so many levels).

IMO teasing overpowered doctor/race car driver/astronaut/billionaire mashups (first in Mando series and now in Ahsoka) cheapens both Jedi and Mando. On top of historically hating each other, their practices are in conflict. Mandos are the hawkish "hardware" archtype, relying on weapons and cool tech to augment their physical training. Jedi are into pacifist magical tai chi shit and wearing armor is beneath them. Absolute mastery of either discipline also pretty much obviates usefulness of the other. Only a bitchmade jedi would wear a helmet and armor when their teras kasi and force training should make them unhittable in the first place. That also kind of makes Vader a bitch, although he gets a pass because he relied on his armor to live.

 

[ferrisjso]

Qui Gon didn't die intentionally as far as I know. In fact with his death was that Anakin was left without a mature father figure who could've helped him with his issues. That's why the song that plays during that fight is called The Duel of Fates.

Anakin was the most powerful Jedi ever basically so him living through being cut up isn't a stretch to me.

While I like what they did with Maul after they brought him back, I'm not keen on him living through being cut in half. I can accept it due to his connection to the witches.

As far as how many Jedi (different from people) have been killed by lightsaber stabs I don't know, but I also don't care too much.

I'm not upset per se it's just eye roll inducing to me and it's the third time in short order that someone has been stabbed in the exact same spot in the stomach no less. If this was a one off and was done faster it might be different, but it's the third time and it's a lazily written, overdone, uninteresting way of subduing Sabine. I thought of more interesting ways of handling that fight off the top of my head with basically no thought. To me it's just like, "c'mon on guys, do something different."

When something silly happens my first instinct is to look for ways to make it make sense. That's what I came up. Like with Reva my first thought was that leaving someone alive to build their hate is such a Sithy thing to do.

Not disagreeing with you or your frustraion about their creative choice. Once it was made just trying to make it make sense.

Maul surviving is the case study for a stupid idea executed perfect IMO. Love how he was put into the story but him surviving seriously threatened the suspension of disbelief.

Just bringing it up when you think about it how few people in Star Wars get killed by lightsaber wounds alone unless they are NPCs. But yeah in IRL if you could instantly stop the bleeding of a stab wound(which lightsabers apparently do) you'd survive if organs weren't hit. I guess main characters always get lucky in this regard because they are main characters.

With Qui Gon the thing is if he'd lived Anakin would not have been trained the Jedi had already told him no. Anakin is only trained because it was Qui Gons dying wish hence why when he's dying he's making sure to express that this is his dying wish. The idea that Qui Gones death screwed Anakin is hindsight the character himself would not be thinking that. "Duel of the Fates" is for the audience of a film that already knows Anakin becomes Darth Vader. The characters do not share this self awareness. Furthermore we now know Qui Gon taught Obi Wan the technique to become a force ghost meaning he had to have used the same technique before he died that Obi Wan did.

 

[deviake]

When something silly happens my first instinct is to look for ways to make it make sense. That's what I came up. Like with Reva my first thought was that leaving someone alive to build their hate is such a Sithy thing to do.

Not disagreeing with you or your frustraion about their creative choice. Once it was made just trying to make it make sense.

Maul surviving is the case study for a stupid idea executed perfect IMO. Love how he was put into the story but him surviving seriously threatened the suspension of disbelief.

Just bringing it up when you think about it how few people in Star Wars get killed by lightsaber wounds alone unless they are NPCs. But yeah in IRL if you could instantly stop the bleeding of a stab wound(which lightsabers apparently do) you'd survive if organs weren't hit. I guess main characters always get lucky in this regard because they are main characters.

With Qui Gon the thing is if he'd lived Anakin would not have been trained the Jedi had already told him no. Anakin is only trained because it was Qui Gons dying wish hence why when he's dying he's making sure to express that this is his dying wish. The idea that Qui Gones death screwed Anakin is hindsight the character himself would not be thinking that. "Duel of the Fates" is for the audience of a film that already knows Anakin becomes Darth Vader. The characters do not share this self awareness. Furthermore we now know Qui Gon taught Obi Wan the technique to become a force ghost meaning he had to have used the same technique before he died that Obi Wan did.

Yeah I getcha.

With Qui Gon/Duel of Fates that's not my opinion, that's straight from the source:


I'm pretty sure George Lucas says the same thing, haven't found the video yet though. Basically had Qui Gon lived Anakin would've been trained properly and his "fate" would've been different, AKA, no Darth Vader.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Ok, so the cinematography is solid. Of all the SW live action shows, only Andor has better cinematography.
I'm also digging the story.

But the dialogue and the deadpan delivery is fucking ruining it. Its not even table-read level of emotion. C'mon people wtf.

 

[messi_is_imba]

Yeah I getcha.

With Qui Gon/Duel of Fates that's not my opinion, that's straight from the source:


I'm pretty sure George Lucas says the same thing, haven't found the video yet though. Basically had Qui Gon lived Anakin would've been trained properly and his "fate" would've been different, AKA, no Darth Vader.

is that artei lange in the thumbnail ?

 

[deviake]

is that artei lange in the thumbnail ?

Yes, he's very knowledgeable about Star Wars

 

[deviake]

But the dialogue and the deadpan delivery is fucking ruining it. Its not even table-read level of emotion. C'mon people wtf.

Reminds me of the prequels

 

[Hog-train]

The only thing wrong with Ahsoka and Thrawn and everything is that I know where it ends up - the destination sucks. Still ends with the dogshit story with Palpatine coming back, all the old heroes dying like scrubs and purple haired girl boss general.

Just really sucks TBH. Kind of taints all the content before that.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

The only thing wrong with Ahsoka and Thrawn and everything is that I know where it ends up - the destination sucks. Still ends with the dogshit story with Palpatine coming back, all the old heroes dying like scrubs and purple haired girl boss general.

Just really sucks TBH. Kind of taints all the content before that.

To be fair theres a pretty big period of time between that but yeah it is a little depressing that potentially so much work by people who genuinely car about SW is tied to something JJ Abrams wrote on the back of a napkin in 20 mins so he could dangle his member berries in the audiences faces without really giving much of a fuck about what effect it had on the franchise.

There was some talk about some kind of time travel or alternate realities removing the sequels, honestly I would not be shocked to see that happen now that the politics seems to have died down a bit and the sequels themselves are quickly vanishing into culture obscurity. It basically gives Disney the chance to double dip and make more money doing an alternate version.

 

[Hog-train]

There was some talk about some kind of time travel or alternate realities removing the sequels, honestly I would not be shocked to see that happen now that the politics seems to have died down a bit and the sequels themselves are quickly vanishing into culture obscurity. It basically gives Disney the chance to double dip and make more money doing an alternate version.

I really hope this happens, but it seems like wishful thinking by fans TBH.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I really hope this happens, but it seems like wishful thinking by fans TBH.

If it were just cultural war loons perhaps but I think you could argue now the politics are dying down the sequels are rapidly dropping off in most peoples estimations relative to stuff like Mando/Andor and again it would mean Disney get to do another load of sequels and make more money.

I suspect if it does happen it will be some kind of alternate reality not fan service to said loons, it might even have female characters involved.

Your probably talking several years down the line that they would need to consider that as well I'd guess.

 

[Hog-train]

If it were just cultural war loons perhaps but I think you could argue now the politics are dying down the sequels are rapidly dropping off in most peoples estimations relative to stuff like Mando/Andor and again it would mean Disney get to do another load of sequels and make more money.

I suspect if it does happen it will be some kind of alternate reality not fan service to said loons, it might even have female characters involved.

Your probably talking several years down the line that they would need to consider that as well I'd guess.

Much more probable they'd start all over in a completely different time period. Like Knights of the Old Republic.

 

[Thrawn33]

Much more probable they'd start all over in a completely different time period. Like Knights of the Old Republic.

Hundred years in the future would be cool (yes I know there's a comic based on that already)

If Disney had balls it would advertise the release of a new scifi-fantasy show/movie IP.....then in the last scene reveal its the SW universe set 100 years in the future and cut to the traditional end credit score...

 

[JadeOwl]

As my buddy said when we were watching the episode, you know you’re dealing with high quality stock when the back view can be appreciated while wearing freaking hospital pants.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Maul surviving is the case study for a stupid idea executed perfect IMO. Love how he was put into the story but him surviving seriously threatened the suspension of disbelief.

Sums it up perfectly. Maul surviving a mortal kombat fatality with his torso cut in half was just... stupid. That's some Monty Python flesh wound shit:

But his come back was well executed and obviously he was important for the Mandalore story arc.

Just bringing it up when you think about it how few people in Star Wars get killed by lightsaber wounds alone unless they are NPCs. But yeah in IRL if you could instantly stop the bleeding of a stab wound(which lightsabers apparently do) you'd survive if organs weren't hit. I guess main characters always get lucky in this regard because they are main characters.

This is only true because in the SW universe, lightsabers are the ultimate mode of combat. Against lesser opposition, force sensitives can use force choke/push or jedi mind tricks without getting their hands dirty. In general, lightsabers only get used against cans as a last resort, unless by Sith and in that case, they're only doing it for style points.

But when it's mutual lightsaber combat, it's two overpowered adversaries going head to head. And like elite contests in combat sports, more often than not they cancel each other out. The likelihood of a fatal strike is low unless it's a noteworthy battle with plot implications.

Off the top of my head, Kylo Ren/Solo is the other fatal impalement I can think of. But that gets an asterisk because Ren was an emo bitch and the ST sucked.

I don't think there's a clear explanation to anyone surviving a lightsaber impalement. Maybe something as finely crafted as Andor merits that consideration but this series hasn't yet earned that. It was just a sloppy way of finishing Sabine in melodramatic fashion. Impaling someone with the sword through their body is the swordplay equivalent of finishing someone off with a flying superman punch.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I suspect if it does happen it will be some kind of alternate reality not fan service to said loons, it might even have female characters involved.

I detect some virtue signaling here so I have to ask, surely you understand why female characters like Bo Katan, Armorer, Ventress, et al are embraced by most (even said "loons") while Rose Tico, Rey and powerful purple-haired lady are not?