Crime Ahmaud Arbery shooting v3

[7437]

Suspicion is relevant under Georgia law, I believe for a citizens arrest you need to have reasonable and probable suspicion that a felony occurred in order to give chase.

You also have to witness it.

 

[vengeful]

You also have to witness it.

You have to witness a crime (trespassing) and have reasonable/probable suspicion a felony occurred. The law does not say you need to be a witness to the felony.

 

[7437]

You have to witness a crime (trespassing) and have reasonable/probable suspicion a felony occurred. The law does not say you need to be a witness to the felony.

Thats a creative interpretation. Wonder if the defense will go with that.

 

[vengeful]

Thats a creative interpretation. Wonder if the defense will go with that.

Lol it's exactly how it's stated.... When I first read it, I thought it was a dumb ass law that was waiting to be a problem. I still feel that way, but I believe the law was written like that for shoplifters that might steal something valuable and the store owner is allowed to give chase even if he doesn't witness the theft.

But I still think case law regarding use of force would negate this from being a valid citizen's arrest.

 

[A Lurker]

Thread-banned, but yes. Of course. This thread had several banned from it today. You best mind your Ps and Qs and stick with the right narrative.
And by that, I mean the left narrative.

Lucifer was on very thin ice and got called on his bullshit. I think its pretty clear he is a racist, hard to justify a lot of those posts imo. I don't think it of you or Scoopj; you just have opinions. He is one of the 11 btw.

 

[A Lurker]

Media are full of shit they are doing this because Georgia is a swing state so want to rile up racial tensions as they always do


There's plenty of cases where Black men have pulled a gun and made citizen arrest on White criminal (car jacking for example)


The difference is this one went violent, because of how Arbery reacted to the citizens arrest.

Is this you Lucifer?

 

[A Lurker]

I think that is a good argument, but I also think that within Georgia law they had reasonable and probable grounds to suspect Arbery of felony burglary. And again I do think the larger context ought to come into play in their defense. I know if I had a wife and kids and I thought this serial prowler was about to get away yet again, I would consider it rational to give chase and attempt to detain. I would assume he could be a very dangerous man to myself and my family.

If I grant you the above, that that indeed was their frame of mind, which to be fair it could have been. They still fucked up and initiated a threat to that poor young man (who ill add, the more I learn about him, the more I believe him to not be the full coin, not anything wrong that though).

What a horribly tragic set of event; Two families in ruins, one young man dead, one young man's life totally fucked (not to mention the guilt, that's the real kicker); and for what.

The real story in all this though (not diminishing the above, but the only thing it will change Is the lives of those directly involved); is the corruption and heavily implied racial bias of the authorities involved. If that doesn't make you angry, I cannot break bread with you. There's the real outrage; idiots with guns do something tragically stupid, happens every week sadly; authorities appear to cover it up, that's systemic and that's concept level stuff that has become infected (in that local area). Justice should be blind, in this case Justice appears to have lifted the blindfold at the very least.

 

[Final Say]

Gee who could have seen this coming


Its all so transparent

None of this has any impact on the fact that he was murdered.

 

[Renard]

Lol how is this still being talked about? Have new facts come to light?

The media cut out a lot of it to make him look good but basically: known shoplifter and troublemaker in the community. He was the ringleader of a band of 15-17 years old in the second video, stole a TV. Lied to police and said he was 20 but was actually much older at the time.

 

[ryan3434]

None of this has any impact on the fact that he was murdered.

If we are going by facts can we say he was murdered than? Those 2 clowns did not plan on killing AA

 

[BEER]

If we are going by facts can we say he was murdered than? Those 2 clowns did not plan on killing AA

Um, yes. Because factually, if anyone is killed during the commission of a felony it is automatically charged as Felony Murder in the state of Georgia.

Murder doesn't have to be "planned" and premeditation does not mean "planned ahead of time".

 

[Final Say]

If we are going by facts can we say he was murdered than? Those 2 clowns did not plan on killing AA

Well, I suppose they’ll have to be convicted before we can say for sure they’re guilty of murder. But you can murder somebody without premeditation.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

What page did you get this from, where's the rest of the chart?

 

[Madmick]

Lol how is this still being talked about? Have new facts come to light?

(1)
Travis made a call to 911 two weeks before the shooting when he saw Arbery trespassing on the open construction property. He didn't recognize him at the time, apparently, but this matches the date of one of the videos that appears to be showing one of the give instances of Arbery trespassing on the site; though his appearance on the date of the shooting is the only "confirmed" appearance. That may have been contemporary to the date Larry English originally confirmed to The Daily Beast that $2,500 in fishing equipment was taken from the site (the one robbery of several in the neighborhood not reported to police). I originally speculated this was around January 23rd based on chronologies in these reports, but this was an estimate. It's possible it was around February 9th. I detailed this in v1:
https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/160136992/
After an inundation of death threats English weirdly changed his story, and said that nothing was ever robbed from the site.

(2)
This is especially bizarre given that he called the police department in December (the same month that two other robberies were reported). Much has been made of the fact there were many trespassers on the site, though none of their identities have been confirmed, if they were from the neighborhood, or if Travis witnessed that, and we know some were mere children. Nevertheless, if this was so routine that it didn't bother English, and nothing was ever stolen, one wonders why the local PD would go so far as to contact him specifically:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2020...r-killed-in-georgia-video-shooting-grand-jury

It has since come to light, however, that the Glynn County Police Department contacted English in December 2019, asking him to reach out to Gregory McMichael whenever he “got action” on his surveillance camera, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “Greg is retired Law Enforcement and also a Retired Investigator from the DA’s office,” Officer Robert Rash texted English, along with McMichael’s phone number. “He said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera.” English’s attorney said her client never took McMichael up on his offer.

(3)
Arbery was apparently arrested for shoplifting not once, but twice. Previously it has been reported he was arrested in 2018 for shoplifting. Now additional bodycam video of him being arrested at Wal-Mart for the theft of a 65" TV in December, 2017, has surface.

(4)
The above video confrontation where Arbery threatens a police officer that he will be "fucked up", is suspected of selling drugs in the park, and is observed to be without a driver's license (despite having obviously driven his vehicle to the park in it).


So that's what's new. What isn't new, and what confounds me, is the rage focused on the McMichaels. They may have acted unlawfully, and they may have ultimately killed Arbery, but all available evidence indicates they didn't do so with malice or intent. One wonders why the rage isn't focused on the lack of immediate investigation and follow-up from the DA or responding police officers on the scene where an actual homicide took place. The McMichaels may have a legitimate case to self-defense per Georgia law. The police certainly don't have a case that has been intimated to the public justifying the immediate dismissal of the case.

That has been the one apparent valid criticism throughout this episode.

 

[ryan3434]

Well, I suppose they’ll have to be convicted before we can say for sure they’re guilty of murder. But you can murder somebody without premeditation.

How is that done. I'm trying to think of a way but I've had only one cup of coffee so far.. brain is fuzzy till at least 4 or 5 lol

 

[all caps]

None of this has any impact on the fact that he was murdered.

Did i say otherwise

 

[all caps]

Some of you mfer cant see past your nose i swear

 

[scoopj]

It'd be nice if you guys asked some questions and at least tried to understand what the arguments actually are instead of going straight to the 'media agenda' excuses. (The media is shit, but there is a reason why this story "sells" better than the other way around)
Why don't we see black on white crime sensationalized?

You can't look at these things as just black and white/both sides are the same and equal--that ignores context and the history that made things the way they are.
Stats about 'black on black' crime are stupid because 'black on black' crime isn't racially motivated. It's poor people comitting crimes against other poor people in poor neighborhoods. Do you think black criminals wouldn't rob rich blacks? The crimes that blacks commit on whites are usually not motivated by race, and whites being the majority, and having the most wealth is going to make them more likely to get targeted for crimes by the poor people that commit them.

Cases like Garner, Trayvonn, and Arbery get more attention because of the history of racism of whites against blacks, and that you can find crimes against blacks that are racially motivated, and not just crime for the sake of crime.
Not only do you get individuals that will commit crimes based on race, but you have people in power that will back up the racists...or, like a few people in this thread, will ignore the racial biases that produced the problem. (and I am not saying that blacks have never commited racially motivated crimes)

There is more skeptism and questions of character being asked about a man that was murdered than the people that murdered him. Talking about 'media agendas', why is the dead guy on trial here? Whatever he did in the past has absolutely nothing to do with the McMichael's chasing him down and shooting him.

I reject your justification!

Though it was well written.

 

[BEER]

So that's what's new. What isn't new, and what confounds me, is the rage focused on the McMichaels. They may have acted unlawfully, and they may have ultimately killed Arbery, but all available evidence indicates they didn't do so with malice or intent.

Convince me why two men would grab guns, jump in a truck, and chase a man through a neighborhood for what they only know to be trespassing without malice.

Convince me why they would call a friend as "backup" to chase a man who was only witnessed as having trespassed on unoccupied construction zone, without malice?

Did they intend to kill him? I don't know. Neither do you. But we know they committed multiple crimes, including two felonies, in their pursuit of a man who had simply trespassed.

How can you assume there was no malice?

One wonders why the rage isn't focused on the lack of immediate investigation and follow-up from the DA or responding police officers on the scene where an actual homicide took place.

There has been plenty of outrage and discussion on the corruption within the DA's office and how the police responded.

The McMichaels may have a legitimate case to self-defense per Georgia law.

They most certainly do not. The only person with a case for self-defense per Georgia law would have been Ahmaud Arbery. But he died. He died defending himself.

The police certainly don't have a case that has been intimated to the public justifying the immediate dismissal of the case.

That has been the one apparent valid criticism throughout this episode.

That's why the GBI is now overlooking the investigation. Which could be a good thing, but time will tell.

 

[Madmick]

Convince me why two men would grab guns, jump in a truck, and chase a man through a neighborhood for what they only know to be trespassing without malice.

Because they genuinely believe he is the person who has been thieving from their neighbors, and they're good neighbors who want to put a stop to it.

Convince me why they would call a friend as "backup" to chase a man who was only witnessed as having trespassed on unoccupied construction zone, without malice?

To film the encounter as evidence they only sought to achieve the above.

Did they intend to kill him? I don't know. Neither do you. But we know they committed multiple crimes, including two felonies, in their pursuit of a man who had simply trespassed.

How can you assume there was no malice?

There has been plenty of outrage and discussion on the corruption within the DA's office and how the police responded.

They most certainly do not. The only person with a case for self-defense per Georgia law would have been Ahmaud Arbery. But he died. He died defending himself.

That's why the GBI is now overlooking the investigation. Which could be a good thing, but time will tell.

No, we don't know they committed any felonies. Those are the charges, and as I've pointed out with citation of Georgia law, there is a valid defense against both charges. Their only crime that appears to be certain was the misdemeanor of False Arrest.

The focus has been a vindictive focus on these two men, not on the DA's mishandling of the case. There's been more focus on the PD and entirely unrelated scandals from past years (like the cover-up of the narc officer who had an illicit sexual relationship with a drug dealer).