Aging students earning upper belts in bjj

[mattemate]

Actually a relevant video. Your dad sounds like a tracher, so this makes sense.

 

[tekkenfan]

I've heard Cesar and Relson have really strict standards with belt promotions, but damn your path sounded tough. Getting the black must have felt awesome.

yup one of relsons guys took 21 years till he got his belt cause he kept failing the self defense test its a bitch of a test let me tell you 100 self techniques done in exactly the way he wants it

 

[berimBOWLoh]

If you enjoy training the rest shouldn’t matter. Belts are simply a consequence of enjoying the process. I’m nearing 40 and and a brown belt after almost 9 years and I really don’t care if and when I get black. If I stop enjoying the process I would stop training. Send me back to white, blue, purple it really doesn’t matter.

The whole idea of “devaluing the art” is silly to me. People not realizing that 99% of the world doesn’t gaf what a black belt means. The only value the art has is the value you see in it personally. For me BJJ is way more than being able to kick people’s asses. It’s about personal growth and lessons you can use in every aspect of life. That is the real gift of bjj

 

[RTD1]

yup one of relsons guys took 21 years till he got his belt cause he kept failing the self defense test its a bitch of a test let me tell you 100 self techniques done in exactly the way he wants it

Yes, because being able to demonstrate some ridiculous TMA-esque self-defense technique against a Frankenstein choke or an over the arms bear hug is critical to being worthy of a belt whereas getting tapped by a world champion one belt level down from you means that you're too old for your belt and don't deserve it.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Hi all-
Question that I'm struggling with and would love some other of the more experienced and senior grapplers take.

The crux of my question is this- what should belts and grading look like for older students after blue? What should the requirements for purple or brown be?

As some of you know, my dad is my freaking hero. He was just promoted to purple belt at age 63. He's been doing BJJ for about 7 years now. He's been doing martial arts for 30 plus. And he's really struggling with his promotion, not feeling like he deserves it, doesn't want to wear the belt, etc.

My dad has some health problems- bad neck, skin cancer, leg / clotting issues that limit his training. He is very picky with his partners, and only rolls with a couple of people he trusts. He knows all the moves and can demonstrate them well. During rolling, when he is on top, he is still a fucking nightmare (6'4, 250, and strong as shit). Some days he doesn't do much, but he is there, learning, helping, etc.

He will never roll with the new guys, but will teach them to shoulder roll, shrimp etc. The brown and purple belts come to him to learn the self defense and weapon requirements for their next rank (due to his other martial arts background). He's at the gym 4-5 times a week, either in BJJ, teaching self defense, taking falls in Judo, etc.

So should he have been stuck at blue forever? Does he stay at purple for 4 years (he was white for 2.5 years, blue for 4.5) and then get brown?

I'm not looking to justify his promotion, hopefully it doesn't come across that way. Maybe he is an exception. But as BJJ gets more popular and ages in the US, this is going to come up and I'm curious what will be the art's response. Are we going to see more "ceremonial" type black belts? Is the mystique of the bjj black belt going to be lost? Is it fair to say that someone like my dad earning a black belt at 69/ 70 devalues the belt?

And to less of the extreme - what about the 40-50 year old dads who train 2-3 times a week and are purple belts- but no longer have the time or willingness to dedicate to competition? Is it fair to tell a 45 year old brown belt- you can keep training, but you will never be able to compete / defend a black belt, and we don't want to devalue the art- so you are not getting it? (I'm not talking about the rich guys buying belts with privates or gym owners- these are people who do know and can perform bjj- just maybe not at the historical, mythical black belt kill everyone on any mat anywhere level)

Thanks in advance-

TLDR - how will (or should) requirements change as bjj and the people doing it mature in the US?

If belts are supposed to simply reflect actual ability on the mat, then as you age your belt should decrease. Lets face it, Helio Gracie at 90 wasn't beating many 20 year old blue belts - should his belt have been reduced to blue (or even) white belt?

Most would say no, because the belt reflects the knowledge and experience rather than the ability. Sporting titles reflect ability. You're world champion only so long as you have the ability to beat all others in your weight division. When you lose that ability, you cease to become world champion. However, your knowledge and experience remain the same (or have increased), so your rank remains the same.

As others have said, your dad did good.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

This is an old thread but basically it doesn't matter if he's the best purple belt in the room. It mb attests that he's the best purple belt HE can be. He should only be compared to himself, not anyone else.

 

[Cash Bill 52]

I don't know where I fit in. I got my blue Belt 7 years ago today (8/31/11) and I till actively train but I usually lose to most at the gym. I turned 69 last month and generally I roll with anyone as assigned by the Sensei. I do a lot better in no-gi than gi (like it more and have a wrestling background) . I do not compete as entry fees are way too high for me, in fact I often work as staff as some tournaments just to add to my very limited income. It is hard enough to pay the gym fee ($100), the monthly transit pass to get there ($32.50) , as well as replace equipment as it get sworn out but I like BJJ so much that I just want to keep going, even walking 1 km from the bus stop to the gym in days that sometimes reach 110 or more (Lost Wages, NV, USA), but at times knowing that a promotion is highly unlikely until I can do a lot better on the mats is discouraging. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks

You are 69, train regularly, and have had a blue belt for 7 years. I would think you deserve a purple belt.

Thanks for bumping this thread. I’d like to hear more about your story. Could you start a new thread and tell us more?
Good luck!

 

[BOWHUNTER]

Your Dad is legit as fuck bro. The standards are the same technique wise but you cant expect older guys to be able to smash younger guys of same skill.

 

[BOWHUNTER]

You are 69, train regularly, and have had a blue belt for 7 years. I would think you deserve a purple belt.

Thanks for bumping this thread. I’d like to hear more about your story. Could you start a new thread and tell us more?
Good luck!

I'd give $20 to a go fund me for this guy

 

[SHAOLINMONK420]

Do you think anyone getting those red or striped belts are still able to hang with even young brown belts? Evety subsequent degree of black belt is entirely ceremonial. Why do we have no problem promoting guys way past their prime to advanced black belt degrees, but balk at giving that same guy a purple or brown belt?

what he said

 

[vcmmafan]

Belt should just be knowledge because everyone's body deteriorates

But maybe make browns try to compete a couple times (key word try) before actually promoting to black. Or reserving stripes for winning events. Idk

 

[Evenflow80]

I'm only a blue belt but your dad sounds like he more than earned that belt , more than most IMO. At 63 years old coming in to train 5 days a week for 7 years thsts just amazing . Your dad (and you ) should be extremely proud of him .

 

[Forceof1]

Thanks for the bump- my dad is still training- we rolled two 5 minute round at open mat today, he rolled 2 more with our black belt- then he taught filipino stick fighting to some guys for half an hour.

I think the only part of my thoughts that have changed is that if you are not actively and full rolling- the process should take longer to advance. My dad earned a stripe after about a year as a purple belt- that pace seems ok to me.

Hell, I'm 2-3 times a week- and it took me 9 months for my first stripe on brown. Also seemed about right.

Theres another guy who trains 3-4 times per week, and competes regularly- he got a stripe after 6 months.

So while I think time shouldn't be the sole determining factor, it is a useful metric.

 

[Uchi Mata]

It's mostly mat time and knowledge regardless of your age. People have differing physical abilities they bring to the mat, I don't think that should prevent your promotion. I do think however that standards of personal performance of technique shouldn't be eased just because someone's older. If you're physically incapable of demonstrating moves or teaching them, I do think you should be limited in your ability to be promoted. That rubric applies to very few people however, I've only met one in all my years of training who came regularly but was unable to do a large number of moves (and he was in his late 60s when he started). In general I'm totally fine with judging people's ability in the context of their physical capabilities. We don't not promote women because they can't beat men twice their size, age is just another factor that goes into competitive performance capability.

 

[Spoken]

Sounds like his Bjj is legit and that he knows how the moves and how to apply them.. I’m sure he deserves the belt.

 

[Foppa21]

OP's dad is the man....

 

[maximus__]

I started training at 15.i am now 27. I am still a white belt.

I took about 8 years off in the middle and would of been lucky to have trained 20x in that period. I have been back at it on average 2x a week now for a year and a half.

My school is comp based and the blues are legit and generally win at both local and overseas comps. I get smashed by them in the gi and go can defend ok without one.

When i get that blue i know i will be very good but i don’t compete so i probably won’t be getting one anytime soon.

 

[Grassshoppa]

What's it really matter? Even the best BJJ player in the world or baddest UFC fighter will be too old one day to even fend off a toddler.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

Right or wrong, I concluded long ago that the only thing a belt signifies is the relationship btw you and your instructor. To question your worthiness of receiving the belt is to question your instructors ability to evaluate jiu jitsu - I think it's both selfish and egotistical.

Agreed. The longer I train the more I realize how little the belts mean. I've seen too many undeserving people get promoted while more deserving people are left behind. Unfortunately, that often leads to the promoted people quitting because they can't "defend their belts" and/or the other people leaving because of ego or to get a fairer shake at another academy. Belts mean a lot to some people.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Agreed. The longer I train the more I realize how little the belts mean. I've seen too many undeserving people get promoted while more deserving people are left behind. Unfortunately, that often leads to the promoted people quitting because they can't "defend their belts" and/or the other people leaving because of ego or to get a fairer shake at another academy. Belts mean a lot to some people.

It's so random too. My coach, for instance, used to have belt promotions every 5-6 months like clockwork. In the last 3-4 years he's totally left off his schedule as he got distracted running the BJJ program at a big MMA gym, so we've been going 9 months or more between them (he still only gives one stripe each time). I was a purple belt for 2.5 years, I'll have been a brown belt for around 4 years before getting my BB assuming the promotion he just scheduled doesn't get pushed back again. Belts are a function of so many things, it's mostly a question of what your belt means to you, your coach, and your training partners than it is meeting any sort of external standard. If you're interested in external validation, go win tournaments.