Aggression in BJJ Training

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by JoeU1741, Oct 5, 2005.

  1. JoeU1741

    JoeU1741 Yellow Belt

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    Do you BJJ practitioners find that a lot of the mental game in BJJ is about playing an aggressive game? There was a post previously about having the killer instinct and another about naturally talented white belts (which mentioned this), so it got me thinking.

    I've been training BJJ for a while and really enjoy it. I'm a big (for my height) strong guy, but am a very passive guy to roll with in that I don't try and kill the other guy. I aim not to use my strength and work on technique. From day one I wasn't overly concerned about getting tapped or seeing how many people I could tap, but I'm wondering now if that is a mistake.

    There are guys in the club who haven't been training as long as me or attending as often, who seem to win on pure aggression. Sometimes when we're rolling I feel like they're treating each roll like a competition, but afterwards, they're always very cool and relaxed, so it's not hostility as such. I work on technique a lot both in class and at home, but I'm wondering if more of the benefit comes from just overwhelming your opponent with everything you have.

    I know a lot of BJJ is not just gaining position and being passive, it's always moving, thinking a step ahead etc, but just wondering if having a more passive attitude is not a good thing. I see it a lot in the higher belts, they seem very calm and relaxed when rolling (unless it's someone who is really testing them) - perhaps I am not experienced enough to be taking this approach?
     
  2. LCDforMe

    LCDforMe Purple Belt

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    I tend to work on technique as well also. I don't mind tapping even to a newer guy. If they are going balls to the walls and I tap, I will tryt harder next time by throwing some aggression with my technique.


    I don't think that overwhelming them with all you have is the way to go. BJJ is a marathon, not a sprint. You will gas going all out like that. Just flow with the go.
     
  3. wingelefoot

    wingelefoot Guest

    the aggressive guys, from what i've had, will hurt you unintentionally. but, they do tire out fast :p. when guys go all aggressive and physical on me, i just try to avoid subs and get the position and sit on it. they eventually try to throw a fit/tantrum to escape and end up burning out. then i go for the kill :D fun fun being cool and passive has always worked for me :p
     
  4. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I think the better you get, the more okay it is to be passive. If you don't have much skill, being aggressive can get you surprisingly far against much better opponents. Eventually you are better off with a more controlled style, as your skills progress.
     
  5. Kawlinz

    Kawlinz How do I change my Custom User Title?

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    I disagree. if someone trains for sprint after sprint after sprint, they won't gas :)
     
  6. Jason Pair

    Jason Pair Amateur Fighter

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    Depends on the situation, working technique will surely make you better just do not be overly passive and DO NOT buy into that traditional brazilian jiu-jitsu bs about using literally no strength, speed, athletism ect.. For me it depends on what the guy gives me, sometimes with some of our guys I'll just play open guard, let the guy try to pass. Or I'll just get the takedown, pass, work positioning. Now if it's one of our guys who just really gets into it and tends to go balls to the wall but also has decent technique, I fuckin' love that and I'll usually have fun and throw being passive out the window.

    Just be sure to work both sides, if you think you need to be passive and all "technical" all the time you will become very one dimensional and end up getting crushed in a comp. or against a guy from a good rival school. Just give the guy you're training with back what he's giving you some of the time.
     
  7. ARIS

    ARIS Brown Belt

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    some times you have to work agressive and with intensity some times you have to go slow. If all the time you go slow then you have truble going "strong" if you go "strong" all the time you lack technique and learn to use force more than technique, which i think is wrong. You have to work both sides of the coin...
     
  8. JoeU1741

    JoeU1741 Yellow Belt

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    Cool, thanks for the replies guys and the good advice.
     
  9. stevec

    stevec Orange Belt

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    Being aggressive is not antithetical to being technical. Being aggressive just means attacking and pressing the action.

    It's actually a very good strategy. I used to be hugely passive because I wanted to make sure I was as technical as possible. This is also the "old school" BJJ philosophy that you see Royce, Royler, and to a lesser extent Nogueira use. They're very comfortable on their backs and waiting for their opponent to give them an opening.

    This strategy is becoming a worse and worse idea as most tournaments now have time limits and more athletic people (such as wrestlers) are starting to also become technical jiu-jitsu fighters. If you're attacking, 90% of the time they have to focus entirely on defending. If you keep attacking they're just as likely to make a mistake as you, but when they make a mistake you win; if you make a mistake you usually just get blocked or reversed.

    Carlson is practically a champion factory, and he's always bred aggressive jiu-jitsu style into his fighters. It's certainly not the only factor, but it's a huge help, especially with two people of equal size and skill level.
     
  10. FutureBxer

    FutureBxer Brown Belt

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    im new to bjj but ive noticed even when watching my instructor.. sometimes to pull off a technique on a fully resistant opponent, you need to be aggressive and use SOME strength to impose you're will, especially if the opponent knows what you're going for.
     
  11. Os3y3ris

    Os3y3ris Green Belt

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    Lets hope BJJ doesn't turn into kung fu. MUSCLE???? EFFORT??? WTF?? Realistically speaking, no one's gonna give you shit. You wanna roll passively, fine. I'll simpy beat you every stage of the game. You need to be setting your stuff up. Don't necessarily use force on force, but "insist" on getting the position you need and setting your moves up properly. If you just lie there and wait until they fuck up, you're gonna be screwed before they have a chance to.

    As far as what higher belts do, they play harder against eachother. They can half ass it against white belts because white belts will submit themselves just about. Thats what ive noticed anyways.
     
  12. RoyMunson

    RoyMunson Green Belt

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    yea, i really don't think aggression is the key. I rolled with a guy a few days ago that was seemingly going all out, being really aggressive and he even kicked me in the balls inadvertintly when going for a heel hook. anyway, wtih about a minute to go he completely gassed and was too tired to roll for the remainder of the class. This left me wondering why the fuck someone would bother controlling someone for 4 minutes of a 5 minute session when they use all of their energy to do so.
     
  13. RobT

    RobT Purple Belt

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    I try to be aggressive, but not in the sense that I'm going nuts and using strength. I just try to constantly be on the attack or looking for sweeps etc.

    Then again, against the better guys I don't always get the chance to be aggressive!
     
  14. anton

    anton White Belt

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    I am guilty of being to passive sometimes. I have decent technique, but i need to work on the athletic side of things. There times, especially in a scramble, when being aggresive and being able to drive into your opponent really makes the difference. There are times when i am still guilty of flopping to my back in those situations, but i am trying to work on it.

    I am a pretty laid back person in general, and i need to get better at physically imposing my will on someone when going to finish a submission. There have times when i more or less have the submission, but i dont put that last bit of extra force on and the guy powers. Its partially technique related i guess, but there are times, especially with stronger opponents, if you have their arm you have to own it and really lock in the submission.

    anton
     
  15. unless your game is crazy tight, being aggressive usually leads to making a mistake and mistakes lead to tapping.
     
  16. triso

    triso Green Belt

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  17. triso

    triso Green Belt

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    By the way, good thread.
     
  18. Brendon Katz

    Brendon Katz Brown Belt Professional Fighter

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  19. Brendon Katz

    Brendon Katz Brown Belt Professional Fighter

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    becus eventually they will get fit and control someone for 5 minutes of a 5 minute session.
     
  20. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

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    I really disagree with the way sub grappling JJ classes are run. In almost all places i've been it's always the same. At the end of class it's just open mat. You pick a guy or get picked. Then you proceed to have the next 30 min. to 1 hour to "roll". Personally, i am an ex wrestler and just naturally favor a power/agression style of pushing the action. Any wrestler will tell you though, after about 2 minutes of hard work you can start to tire if you're not taking some rests and watching your breathing.

    One of my big "beefs" is that for a tournament you are expected to go about 4-5 min. as a novice, beginner, intermediate. So really that is what i think we should be training for in practice. They should do sparring periods with a ring timer or something to let us know the time and then let us go at it. Maybe not ALL the time, but at least sometimes. The biggest problem "passive" jiu jitsu guys have at tournaments is that now they are forced to grapple hard for 4-5 min. and they are used to going "easy" for 30 minutes in practice.

    To me it's all about tournament preparation. And to prepare for that, you need to be going at it at least somewhat aggressively. And if you are going that hard, then ususually you need to rest at about the 4-5 minute level. To me that sounds reasonable. And to that extent (tournament preparation) JJ is really NOT a marathon, and it's not really a sprint either, it's kind of like running a hard mile or so.

    Classes should have periods of technical and light rolling which is classified strictly at non-sparring, and then for guys that want to tournament train, or do realistic sparring. Which in almost all cases can be related to either tournament training or street fighting, well then i think they need to use a ring timer of 3-5 minutes or whatever, to set up realistic sessions. This way you know when the START period and the END periods are. And then you can clearly, objectively, and with intelligence, ration out your energy. Just as you need to do in a tournament match. That's how they do it in boxing, etc.. so why not jiu jitsu/sub grappling? Why does every place run classes the same way with sparring?
     

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