Aaron Hernandez CTE

[xcvbn]

Sure you are, look at boxing. It's a perfect example of participants being allowed to continue even while concussed.

So long as you can stand up and keep your balance before 10 seconds you're good to go.

Are the athletic commissions to blame for their assigned physicians allowing a fighter to continue fighting when he's likely suffered several concussions? Those are the agreed upon rules by all participants.

Anyway, if you're singling out two parties in your lawsuit as being liable for someone's death, then you'd better have some strong evidence that yes, the bulk of his brain damage was in fact due to them corroborating to keep his deteriorating brain a secret.

I'd feel much more comfortable with the lawsuit if they wanted to include the NCAA. They aren't though. They're going after the smallest part of his football career that just happens to be the most lucrative.

If, by some small chance they win anything, I'd hope there's a way for Odin Lloyd's family to take every cent in a civil suit.

I think the major difference here is that there was a legitimate conspiracy to misinform players and the public on football related head injuries for DECADES.

 

[Prefect]

I've heard he acted like a thug back in college. Maybe he already had severe CTE by then. Either way, CTE isn't an excuse to murder people, no matter how you twist it

It isn't an excuse but it is a cause. Case after case you find guys who kill themselves or die overdosing from all the self medicating they were doing to just get through the day. These guys are in really rough shape.

Look at the picture below, it is kind of fucked up how different the two brains are. Are you going to tell me the brain on the right is somehow going to function remotely the same to the one on the left?

 

[Drenalin]

It isn't an excuse but it is a cause. Case after case you find guys who kill themselves or die overdosing from all the self medicating they were doing to just get through the day. These guys are in really rough shape.

Look at the picture below, it is kind of fucked up how different the two brains are. Are you going to tell me the brain on the right is somehow going to function remotely the same to the one on the left?

I'm not saying those two brains are the same, I'm just saying it's no excuse to act as extremely irrational as some of them do. I think there's still a lot of unknown about CTE. I say that because I would think fighters, hockey players & wrestlers would get CTE also, but we don't hear about it affecting them as much.

My guess would be some of these guys with CTE already had inner demons & if anything CTE is the reason why they couldn't control it as much.

 

[Dizzy]

I think the major difference here is that there was a legitimate conspiracy to misinform players and the public on football related head injuries for DECADES.

I understand that, which is why former players are getting a (relatively small) $4M settlement for being diagnosed with CTE.

His generation of player was on the cusp of all the new information coming out and the start of awareness and terrible publicity.

If they can prove that during his professional playing career (the 2010s) that Patriot doctors were corroborating with the league to keep him in games when he was clearly concussed then I'm all for the lawsuit continuing.

I think it's a stretch to prove that the NFL and Patriots were responsible for his death.

 

[xcvbn]

I understand that, which is why former players are getting a (relatively small) $4M settlement for being diagnosed with CTE.

His generation of player was on the cusp of all the new information coming out and the start of awareness and terrible publicity.

If they can prove that during his professional playing career (the 2010s) that Patriot doctors were corroborating with the league to keep him in games when he was clearly concussed then I'm all for the lawsuit continuing.

I think it's a stretch to prove that the NFL and Patriots were responsible for his death.

I would stop short of saying they are responsible for his death, but they(along with the NFL as a whole) are certainly responsible for a 24 year old having the brain of a 60 year old.

 

[Dizzy]

I would stop short of saying they are responsible for his death, but they(along with the NFL as a whole) are certainly responsible for a 24 year old having the brain of a 60 year old.

How can you prove that? There's absolutely no certainty that they were responsible for that in a three year career.

He played more years in high school than he did in the NFL ffs.

Like I said, I'd feel much better about it if they brought in the NCAA. What were they doing to protect him? I'm sure he had plenty of brain damage playing tight end at a national championship level.

Singling out the NFL feels like a desperate cash grab.

 

[faustian]

Sure you are, look at boxing. It's a perfect example of participants being allowed to continue even while concussed.

So long as you can stand up and keep your balance before 10 seconds you're good to go.

Are the athletic commissions to blame for their assigned physicians allowing a fighter to continue fighting when he's likely suffered several concussions? Those are the agreed upon rules by all participants.

Anyway, if you're singling out two parties in your lawsuit as being liable for someone's death, then you'd better have some strong evidence that yes, the bulk of his brain damage was in fact due to them corroborating to keep his deteriorating brain a secret.

I'd feel much more comfortable with the lawsuit if they wanted to include the NCAA. They aren't though. They're going after the smallest part of his football career that just happens to be the most lucrative.

If, by some small chance they win anything, I'd hope there's a way for Odin Lloyd's family to take every cent in a civil suit.

Boxing is not the NFL. A standing 10 count =/= NFL conspiring with doctors to put concussed players on the field.

If a commission were to conspire with doctors to clear a fighter, now we're talking.

I have no idea where you're getting this "bulk" idea from. Both the NCAA and NFL could've contributed to his brain damage. If one contributed more that doesn't absolve the other of liability. And the issue isn't keeping his brain damage a secret as much as it's causing the brain damage

Maybe they will file a suit against the NCAA, who knows. But I'm not sure if there's as much damning evidence out there against the NCAA as there is against the NFL

 

[faustian]

I think the major difference here is that there was a legitimate conspiracy to misinform players and the public on football related head injuries for DECADES.

That's definitely one of the issues. But you can always make the argument that individuals are ultimately responsible for their own health in general circumstances and could've informed themselves of the risks of head injuries

My greater concern is the NFL's in-game practice of deliberately not even checking for concussion symptoms in an obviously concussed player and then having doctors clear the mentally helpless player for his coach to send him back out there 5 mins later at risk for more trauma while already in an extremely vulnerable state

 

[Dizzy]

Boxing is not the NFL. A standing 10 count =/= NFL conspiring with doctors to put concussed players on the field.

If a commission were to conspire with doctors to clear a fighter, now we're talking.

I have no idea where you're getting this "bulk" idea from. Both the NCAA and NFL could've contributed to his brain damage. If one contributed more that doesn't absolve the other of liability. And the issue isn't keeping his brain damage a secret as much as it's causing the brain damage

Maybe they will file a suit against the NCAA, who knows. But I'm not sure if there's as much damning evidence out there against the NCAA as there is against the NFL

You said you can't just concuss people, even murderers. I provided one example showing you can. To what level is an AC responsible for a fighter's well being? Hunto just came out and said he's suffering from memory loss and slurred speech. He fully plans on finishing out his contract and fighting three more times though.

Sounds dangerous and irresponsible to me but I'm sure he'll be cleared and allowed to accumulate more brain damage.

Are you ok with that?

Like I said, he wasn't playing in the 80s or 90s when everyone was pretty much ignorant to the long term side effects of the NFL. The conspiracy portion starts to fall flat with me given the age in which he played.

 

[xcvbn]

How can you prove that? There's absolutely no certainty that they were responsible for that in a three year career.

He played more years in high school than he did in the NFL ffs.

Like I said, I'd feel much better about it if they brought in the NCAA. What were they doing to protect him? I'm sure he had plenty of brain damage playing tight end at a national championship level.

Singling out the NFL feels like a desperate cash grab.

You're really missing the significance and severity of the NFL actively misinforming the public. As I've mentioned, I wouldn't have thought twice about my kids playing football had those two s from ESPN not investigated this stuff. It came out well after Hitmandez played peewee, high school, and college football. Perhaps his mom would have had him just play basketball knowing the consequences of a football career that started when he was a kid. We won't know because the NFL paid doctors to lie for DECADES.

I think when you have an organization as influential to the lives of millions of kids and parents, they have a duty and responsibility when working with medical doctors to maintain a high level of morality and ethics. Therefore they bear responsibility for thousands of players who were directly mislead or whose parents were likely mislead.

It's one thing if the NFL had a hunch and kept that information secret. But they were very proactive and claimed to be at the forefront of brain damage research in the early 90s, when in actuality they were looking for ways to diminish facts in order to maintain profits, viewership, and attendance of future little NFL stars.

 

[Dizzy]

You're really missing the significance and severity of the NFL actively misinforming the public. As I've mentioned, I wouldn't have thought twice about my kids playing football had those two s from ESPN not investigated this stuff. It came out well after Hitmandez played peewee, high school, and college football. Perhaps his mom would have had him just play basketball knowing the consequences of a football career that started when he was a kid. We won't know because the NFL paid doctors to lie for DECADES.

I think when you have an organization as influential to the lives of millions of kids and parents, they have a duty and responsibility when working with medical doctors to maintain a high level of morality and ethics. Therefore they bear responsibility for thousands of players who were directly mislead or whose parents were likely mislead.

It's one thing if the NFL had a hunch and kept that information secret. But they were very proactive and claimed to be at the forefront of brain damage research in the early 90s, when in actuality they were looking for ways to diminish facts in order to maintain profits, viewership, and attendance of future little NFL stars.

So your claim is that the NFL is responsible because they were misleading their players and the public which led to more kids playing football and ultimately more CTE cases?

I think that's a fine moral argument (one of many) to make against the league but I can't imagine that will win them anything but jack and shit in court.

 

[xcvbn]

That's definitely one of the issues. But you can always make the argument that individuals are ultimately responsible for their own health in general and could've informed themselves of the risks of head injuries

My greater concern is the NFL's in-game practice of deliberately not even checking for concussion symptoms in an obviously concussed player and then having doctors clear the mentally helpless player for his coach to send him back out there 5 mins later at risk for more trauma while already in an extremely vulnerable state

Yeah that's a great point. I remember that Brett Favre game where the Saints(?) were trying to kill him and I don't think a single doctor approached the sideline. And definitely that opening season game between the Canthers and Broncans. Scam had no business being in that game at a certain point, yet he was despite "concussion protocol" in place.

 

[xcvbn]

So your claim is that the NFL is responsible because they were misleading their players and the public which led to more kids playing football and ultimately more CTE cases?

I think that's a fine moral argument (one of many) to make against the league but I can't imagine that will win them anything but jack and shit in court.

Probably not. But it would be nice if these people involved were held responsible. At the very least a complete blow to their credibility is in order but they're seemingly untouchable.

 

[Dizzy]

Probably not. But it would be nice if these people involved were held responsible. At the very least a complete blow to their credibility is in order but they're seemingly untouchable.

They won't ever be unfortunately. The NFL settled with the bulk of former players already and part of the settlement was that they were absolved of any responsibility.

 

[xcvbn]

They won't ever be unfortunately. The NFL settled with the bulk of former players already and part of the settlement was that they were absolved of any responsibility.

It boggles my mind they were ordered to pay such a paltry sum. The NFL admitting fault opens up something truly sinister. But theres so much money on the table that this may well become a case where justice won't be served until the perps are all dead.

 

[Makani]

I'm not saying those two brains are the same, I'm just saying it's no excuse to act as extremely irrational as some of them do. I think there's still a lot of unknown about CTE. I say that because I would think fighters, hockey players & wrestlers would get CTE also, but we don't hear about it affecting them as much.

My guess would be some of these guys with CTE already had inner demons & if anything CTE is the reason why they couldn't control it as much.

By wrestlers do you mean WWF style wrestling? Because as a huge Chris Benoit fan, I'd disagree about there not being much exposure. Professional wrestling has always had it's dark side, I think everyone knows the substance abuse and depression that can come with even the most well managed career.

As for hockey, Canadian hockey banned bodychecking under age 13 a few years ago, and outside a few brutal hits now and then most hits are routine. It varies team to team, but most medical staff are pretty good with their protocols.

MMA is recent enough a sport that the legends haven't had to really deal with the after effects yet, but you'll see a lot of brains donated to science when the time comes. I met Gary Goodridge a few times when I lived in Barrie and he's a few years from being unintelligible, bless his warrior heart. But I think if you asked him he'd say he knew the risks of fighting 6 times a year against monsters.

It's sad man, but there's a scale of awareness that kind of changes the context. Like faust said, the NFL actively conspired to push this issue down, and is basically being dragged kicking and screaming behind the podium to admit that maybe years of constant impact might scramble your brain a bit.

 

[faustian]

You said you can't just concuss people, even murderers. I provided one example showing you can. To what level is an AC responsible for a fighter's well being? Hunto just came out and said he's suffering from memory loss and slurred speech. He fully plans on finishing out his contract and fighting three more times though.

Sounds dangerous and irresponsible to me but I'm sure he'll be cleared and allowed to accumulate more brain damage.

Are you ok with that?

Like I said, he wasn't playing in the 80s or 90s when everyone was pretty much ignorant to the long term side effects of the NFL. The conspiracy portion starts to fall flat with me given the age in which he played.

I didn't think I had to specify you can't ILLEGALY give someone brain damage. So sorry for the confusion there Dizzy lol

*But even in boxeo, a fighter's consent to potential brain damage is waived if any aspect of the event is deemed illegal i.e. clearing an unfit fighter, sanctioning a gross mismatch, fuckery with PED testing, etc.

Hunt is consenting to and assuming the risk of whatever injury he may suffer. That's perfectly legal, so long as the commission and UFC don't do anything illegal

Anyways I'm not sure what any of this has to do with in-game practices of the NFL

I'm sure Hitmandez was aware of the danger of concussions. As I've mentioned a few times already now, that's not the issue.

Post #68 (on my phone so can't add direct quote):

"You can make the argument that players could've informed themselves of the risks of head injuries"

From my novel post #39:

"Every Sunday football players choose to take the risk of being concussed"

Read the rest of those posts if you want to know what the issue is

 

[Dizzy]

Read the rest of those posts if you want to know what the issue is

Nah

 

[faustian]

Yeah that's a great point. I remember that Brett Favre game where the Saints(?) were trying to kill him and I don't think a single doctor approached the sideline. And definitely that opening season game between the Canthers and Broncans. Scam had no business being in that game at a certain point, yet he was despite "concussion protocol" in place.

Cam wasn't even evaluated at any point in that game. And this was a high profile nat TV SB rematch on opening weekend with the new protocols in place. "But Cam knew you can get concussions in football!" No shit, everyone knows that, but wtf does that have to do with the fact that the NFL allowed his team to have him in there taking brain damage all game long? Dude was probably so out of it to even be aware that he was operating on auto-pilot

So you can only imagine the shit that went on every game of every week when Hitmandez was playing.

 

[faustian]

Nah

Here's the easy one for you:

My greater concern is the NFL's in-game practice of deliberately not even checking for concussion symptoms in an obviously concussed player and then having doctors clear the mentally helpless player for his coach to send him back out there 5 mins later at risk for more trauma while already in an extremely vulnerable state

Literally only one sentence fam