A serious question about upper maximum weight cutting just by the sake of science

[Rubios]

So, let's say a muscular fighter (muscle tissue allows more water retention), let's say Leon Edwards or Usman or Costa or Romero...

...drop fat% until the absolute funcional minimum. Let's allow for the sake of it body fat percentages not ideal by any means for performance.
Let's say 5% or even slightly below.

And then, at that point, they undergo the most physically savage water cut to the very, very, very limit. A limit federations would not allow, but I'm only asking what a male body CAN do, not that they should go for It.

It's a question that emerged yesterday casually talking, and has nothing to do with my view. I advocate for fight night weight ins.

But, as I'm passionate about the limits of human body (healthy or not) I will greatly apareciste your takes, specially if you have any sort of physiological background or knowledge.

How many pounds they could drop as compared to a healthy walking weight of over 10% body fat fully hydrated?

 

[Buffmeister]

About three fiddy

 

[Flower2dPeople]

You could beat Khabib.

 

[Stuart0502]

I don't know but if you look at the numbers that the guys who died in the tragic 1997 wrestling season were cutting. The report says they were cutting significantly less than a lot of MMA fighters are currently bragging about.

15 pounds max as a water cut.

Hyperthermia and Dehydration-Related Deaths Associated with Intentional Rapid Weight Loss in Three Collegiate Wrestlers -- North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Michigan, November-December 1997

 

[Oddmonster]

So, let's say a muscular fighter (muscle tissue allows more water retention), let's say Leon Edwards or Usman or Costa or Romero...

...drop fat% until the absolute funcional minimum. Let's allow for the sake of it body fat percentages not ideal by any means for performance.
Let's say 5% or even slightly below.

And then, at that point, they undergo the most physically savage water cut to the very, very, very limit. A limit federations would not allow, but I'm only asking what a male body CAN do, not that they should go for It.

It's a question that emerged yesterday casually talking, and has nothing to do with my view. I advocate for fight night weight ins.

But, as I'm passionate about the limits of human body (healthy or not) I will greatly apareciste your takes, specially if you have any sort of physiological background or knowledge.

How many pounds they could drop as compared to a healthy walking weight of over 10% body fat fully hydrated?

The stats we do have from the UFC shows that the max weight gained (at the time they released the info), was almost 18%. Considering that these are professionals, I would say that is close to the limit -

 

[RonDante]

Costa was 215 against romero, that’s 16.2% more than 185

Romero was 207 against costa, that’s 11.8%

Geoff Neal was 200 against garry, that’s 17.6% more than 170, and 11.1% more than 180 garry

Barboza claimed 170 in his first featherweight fight, 17.2% more than 145

Supposedly Drew Dober weighed 183 once, that’s 18% more than 155

Seems like no one is hitting 20%, not even an absolute tank like dober or costa or geoff neal seemingly

 

[Rubios]

Let me articulate my question a bit more. What Tibau did was insane, of course.
But it was more about bulking a lot pre camp, you can see in the picture above he is not that shredded. He went to the weight ins dehydrated as fuck, but not ripped as I'm a physique contest.

I am asking, again, for the sake of human physiology, IF a genetically gifted fighter (muscular) goes full Mr Olympia reaching body fat levels absolutely not ideal for Athletic performance (let's get It at 4-5%), totally unsustainable for more than a little window of time and obviously detrimental to body function let alone athletic performance.

And THEN, from that point of minimum attainable BF%, this fighter (again, let's say Kamaru or Yoel or Edwards kind of muscular in terms of muscle water retention), he undergoes the most brutal dehydration, one that federations should not allow, again, getting to the strictly minimum water % to... Make It alive to the weight lol.

What could be aprox the difference between the walking cadaver, totally dehydrated and Mr Olympia levels bf%...

...And the totally rehydrated, carb reloaded, fighter 36 hours later?

The conversation emerged talking about how many weight classes could a fighter POSSIBLY, or even remotely possibly, compete at.

Let's say we are talking about a 6 foot tall, muscular, a natural (but short) middleweight that could do WW without problems.
Could this fighter go down to 155 AND compete at LHW in a... let's say, 2 year span?

I think It has to do with how much muscle mass you can keep while screwing with hydration and BF% to the upper humanlynpossible levels

 

[Rubios]

Just as an acclaration. I am well aware of fighters that have competed in 4 or even more (BJ Penn) weight classes.

I'm asking if that is humanly possible without losing significant lean muscle on the process of going down, just screwing with bf% and hydration.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Just as an acclaration. I am well aware of fighters that have competed in 4 or even more (BJ Penn) weight classes.

I'm asking if that is humanly possible without losing significant lean muscle on the process of going down, just screwing with bf% and hydration.

Impossible to answer. What is significant? Also, no studies can actually be done as there is - at least in the USA - a way to get a study of people dehydrating themselves to this level approved. Surveys, possibly. But there are too many variables, particularly at the top end of weight cutting sports where most individuals fall outside the bell curve for what they are capable of, making it even more difficult.

 

[FreedomCricket]

I also think in a controlled scenario with the ability rehydrate via IV, is different than a standard UFC weight cut.


Some of these guys are very likely at the functional maximum of the weight cutting. Perhaps in a scientific scenario could pull a few more LBS out.

May also result in death.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

So, let's say a muscular fighter (muscle tissue allows more water retention), let's say Leon Edwards or Usman or Costa or Romero...

...drop fat% until the absolute funcional minimum. Let's allow for the sake of it body fat percentages not ideal by any means for performance.
Let's say 5% or even slightly below.

And then, at that point, they undergo the most physically savage water cut to the very, very, very limit. A limit federations would not allow, but I'm only asking what a male body CAN do, not that they should go for It.

It's a question that emerged yesterday casually talking, and has nothing to do with my view. I advocate for fight night weight ins.

But, as I'm passionate about the limits of human body (healthy or not) I will greatly apareciste your takes, specially if you have any sort of physiological background or knowledge.

How many pounds they could drop as compared to a healthy walking weight of over 10% body fat fully hydrated?

Totally with you on day-of weigh ins.
And I don't have a scientific answer, but I can tell you I used to train with several ATT guys (15 years ago or so) and that Gleison Tibau cut INSANE amounts of weight (and yes IV'd back what he could before fights). He's not that tall and could/did legit cut from around 220 to 155 for a couple of fights (why would you do that to yourself!?!), cutting the last 15+ the *night of* weigh ins.

edit: lol, ok I'm now seeing that Tibau was the FIRST mentioned. Duh!

 

[spinup]

Costa was 215 against romero, that’s 16.2% more than 185

Romero was 207 against costa, that’s 11.8%

Geoff Neal was 200 against garry, that’s 17.6% more than 170, and 11.1% more than 180 garry

Barboza claimed 170 in his first featherweight fight, 17.2% more than 145

Supposedly Drew Dober weighed 183 once, that’s 18% more than 155

Seems like no one is hitting 20%, not even an absolute tank like dober or costa or geoff neal seemingly

But that is the weight after rehydration, the weight before the cut before fat loss would be higher.

 

[spinup]

Nate Diaz was 3x155= 465lbs in the cage against Mcgregor. That is a 66.66% cut.

 

[jeff7b9]

...drop fat% until the absolute funcional minimum. Let's allow for the sake of it body fat percentages not ideal by any means for performance.
Let's say 5% or even slightly below.

This doesn't exist and it is mildly annoying how many people are deluded to think it does.

Even bodybuilders at competition only reach this for maybe a day or 2.

How many pounds they could drop as compared to a healthy walking weight of over 10% body fat fully hydrated?

That's more like it.



What you think is 8% bodyfat is 12%

What you think is 5% is 8-10%

Lower than that is like a leprechaun riding a unicorn.

 

[jeff7b9]

Let's say we are talking about a 6 foot tall, muscular, a natural (but short) middleweight that could do WW without problems.
Could this fighter go down to 155 AND compete at LHW in a... let's say, 2 year span?

You mean like Rumble beating Charlie Brenneman at 170 in October 2011 and beating Arlòvski at HW in March 2013?

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Frankie Edgar use to cut 5-7lbs and hold onto the LW strap, arguably the hardest strap to earn

 

[Rubios]

You mean like Rumble beating Charlie Brenneman at 170 in October 2011 and beating Arlòvski at HW in March 2013?

View attachment 1045766

Hahaha lol
You got me.

But you will accept that Rumble lost A LOT of muscle going at WW.

My question in a sentence is: how much weight can an athletic freak* drop without sacrificing lean muscle mass, just screwing with dehydration and BF%?


*And by freak I mean: heavy muscular and jacked (as muscle holds more water than fat), outlier high body water percentage -both genetically and due to nutrition/body composition- (slightly above 70% of body weight, 99 percentile, so the fighter is optimally hydrated to start with) and ability to reach and sustain -at least for a bit lol- near essential body fat (under 5%).

 

[jeff7b9]

Hahaha lol
You got me.

But you will accept that Rumble lost A LOT of muscle going at WW.

My question in a sentence is: how much weight can an athletic freak* drop without sacrificing lean muscle mass, just screwing with dehydration and BF%?


*And by freak I mean: heavy muscular and jacked (as muscle holds more water than fat), outlier high body water percentage -both genetically and due to nutrition/body composition- (slightly above 70% of body weight, 99 percentile, so the fighter is optimally hydrated to start with) and ability to reach and sustain -at least for a bit lol- near essential body fat (under 5%).

Have we not already approached this "limit" between guys like Rumble, Pereira, and Gleison Tibau ?

Pereira hit 224 the day after making 185.

Tito claimed 250 after making 205.

I don't feel like doing math not sure if that beats tibaus supposed 190+ from 155 percentage wise.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Hahaha lol
You got me.

But you will accept that Rumble lost A LOT of muscle going at WW.

My question in a sentence is: how much weight can an athletic freak* drop without sacrificing lean muscle mass, just screwing with dehydration and BF%?


*And by freak I mean: heavy muscular and jacked (as muscle holds more water than fat), outlier high body water percentage -both genetically and due to nutrition/body composition- (slightly above 70% of body weight, 99 percentile, so the fighter is optimally hydrated to start with) and ability to reach and sustain -at least for a bit lol- near essential body fat (under 5%).

No one can answer you. Too many unknowns and no way to craft a proper study.

 

[kingghidrah]

The stats we do have from the UFC shows that the max weight gained (at the time they released the info), was almost 18%. Considering that these are professionals, I would say that is close to the limit -

The gain back was 18%, but the "cut" was only 15%, and that's the question that was asked, what is the max cut