a positive or negative trainer?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by toasty, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. toasty

    toasty Orange Belt

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    Working at a gym that has 2 guys that are almost polar opposites in their training styles...

    1 guy always pumps you up, you're doing great, you looked way better than last time you sparred, etc..

    the other guy is more "What the hell are you doing? Do I need to park an ambulance out front? etc...


    I can choose either guy though I started with the negative guy just out of pure chance...

    over the long term which do you guys prefer?
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I think they're just playing the good Cop/bad Cop roles. Which makes for a perfect training team. My Eldest student and I did the same thing. He was laid back and easy going, rarely scolded students, and quietly encouraged people to keep their focus and push through. Meanwhile I demeaned people Military Drill Instructor style. lol Good times. The one who comes off as an asshole, look through it. Usually guys act like that because they really care a lot about you which is why they're so tough about it. I was Demonic in my methods of instruction, but would always go to bat for my students and was very protective over their overall training serenity.
     
  3. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    Which one has better technique? Which one do you sweat with more?

    All else being equal, go with the positive guy.

    But you don't want to train with a guy who doesn't teach you anything, but is always pumping you up. If he can be positive and upbeat and still give you the skills and that cardiovascular burn, then go with him.
     
  4. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    Heh heh...

    You know that I teach a class a couple times a week that is comprised mostly of kids. I'm definitely more bad cop. If I see even one of them yawning I give them the old, "Oh, are you having a tough time waking up? Bored? I think I have something that will get your attention. Chop your feet! We're doing 25 up downs..."

    I've had parents pull their kid out of my class because they thought I was "too mean". They just don't understand that if I didn't give a crap I'd let them yawn and throw their pathetic excuses for techniques all class.
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Holy shit you don't allow yawning either? You're the only other person I've ever seen who enforces that. I used knuckle push-ups as the consquence in my classes. Mind you we trained outdoors, so if they had to do it it was either on dirt, or the sidewalk. lol

    Man I had days in my class simply dedicated to increasing the pain threshold. That was the beautiful thing about having an upstart class outside the scope of parental regulation. It was almost like Fight Club in all honesty, but this was way before that movie existed.

    No parents in this Country "get it." Which is funny because it translates to how a lot of these guys approach their training. In traditional training injury is injury, you just deal with it. You do what your instructor tells you or leave. Your a TKD guy, you ever heard the story of Tan Tao Liang and John Liu? John was one of those students whose parent came to Tan's school and BEGGED him to let John live and train with him (no Father I guess). John saw Tan's kicking ability (Tan can hold his leg up in a standing split as easily as you or I could hold our arm up, and still today even though he's older), and said he would endure any pain to be able to kick like that. So Tan forced him into the splits and broke both his legs. Couldn't walk straight for about 2 years but when he finally healed he had amazing elasticity. John went on to get a victory over Chuck Norris in an open competition, and this was in Chuck's prime.

    here's a couple of reference pics. This is Tan:

    http://www.firstuniversal.clara.net/sing-lungs_files/flashleg.gif

    Here is John Liu:

    http://www.kungfufilms.nl/images/John_liu_a.JPG

    Kids hear this kind of training today and say shit like "Oh my God that's SOOOO unnecessary, no reason to ever do that, just spar and learn a little Muay Thai and your kicking will be good enough" and all kinds of other things. It's not about wether or not it was necessary, it was about that John had a goal and was willing to do whatever it took to get there. Tan could only show him how he himself got there, and it worked. Can't argue with results. Same was true with myself and my Satanic training methods. My class only met once per week (we were all young and in school at the time), so sessions were 5 hours long and broken into segments intensely focusing on one thing or the next. We even had "class discussion" at the end where everyone sat down and offered their perspectives on the day and where they would like to see their training going. My students weren't the best-skilled since we didn't have enough time to really refine technique and conditioning together, but they were tough as nails and not a lot of local Dojo guys wouldn't spar them under our conditions, which was no pretective gear, full speed and power. Ahh, old school.
     
  6. toasty

    toasty Orange Belt

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    thank you both for your input...
    I don't think this is an act, I've watched them both in dealing with personal and business stuff and they approach it the same way...

    King you mentioned in another thread you might have some drills for improving your clinch work, if you did post them can you link me to them, or if you can throw them in this thread I'd love to see them...I printed out your heavy bag routine already... thanks....
     
  7. toasty

    toasty Orange Belt

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    thank you both for your input...
    I don't think this is an act, I've watched them both in dealing with personal and business stuff and they approach it the same way...

    King you mentioned in another thread you might have some drills for improving your clinch work, if you did post them can you link me to them, or if you can throw them in this thread I'd love to see them...I printed out your heavy bag routine already... thanks....
     
  8. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    No. I don't allow yawning. Mostly because it pisses me off. I never wanted to teach martial arts and especially to kids. I always loved working out. I was forced into it. So I consider it an insult when they yawn or are a lazy ass.

    I won't lie and say that kids in my class are tougher than average or that we don't have some McDojo syndrome issues. We have all of that. You get kids in all shapes and sizes. Some have ADD issues. So you just do the best you can with what you got. And my teacher always taught us that 'when it doubt, sweat.' There was nothing he hated more than a martial arts class full of talking (teacher demonstrating a technique and everyone standing around watching). He wanted our lungs burning, sweat blinding our vision, and us barely able to stand by the end of the class.

    And it seems to work fine for those who are athletically gifted and driven. I'm a pretty decent sized guy (six foot 200 pounds). Plus I get along with people. So I've never been in a fight. But I've had one student who, at 16, was assaulted by an adult male. She hit the guy with a spinning sidekick and dropped him. Like a smart girl she started running, but even when she turned around awhile later he was still laying there, clutching his ribs and writhing on the ground.

    To be honest I don't know if every one of my students has the athletic ability to do something like that. Many of them might have gotten their asses kicked. That girl just happened to be the most athletically gifted student I'd ever seen. I'd always pushed her (since she was like ten), yelled at her, told her to stop being lazy, etc, etc. So that guy messed with the wrong girl...

    Now I'm rambling and hijacking this guys thread. My main point is that I think that there is a place for negative reinforcement and the drill instructor mentality. :)
     
  9. toasty

    toasty Orange Belt

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    Hijack away...I'm enjoying your stories...
     
  10. my big toe

    my big toe Yellow Belt

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    That's a good story about Tan Tao Liang, I started training with Bong Soo Han at age 11, he used to walk behind us while we were stretching holding a bamboo Kendo sword. He would then stop, smack us on the leg or the floor, and then lean all of his weight on our back and hold it. At first, you tense up and try to fight the pain, then you realize that the only way to get him off your back was to relax and pray your muscles and tendons rip. Most of the kids would quit within the first month, but for those that stuck it out we could all do front splits and touch our chest to the floor. I think it's good to push kids, but a lot of parents don't like to see it, and as soon as their kid complains they yank them out.

    There is a difference between being tough and being negative. Bong Soo Han was very tough and disciplined, and he set high expecatations for us, but he never insulted us personally. He would just yell at us to do it faster, harder, better. You just can't take it personally, just listen and improve. Everyone has their own style.
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    When I say playing the role I don't mean it's false. Sometimes this is why teachers team up, because they KNOW how their personalities are. If I ever ran a school completely by myself I'd have minimal members who were all as mean as me. And mean-ass guest instructors like Aaron up there, and would encourage them to be mean. lol Yawning pisses me off too. Everytime even now I see someone yawn in a session the first thing I do is snap my fingers at them and go "hey, cut that shit out."

    So guys like us NEED a nice guy around to explain our hardass ways to the more sensitive students of today's training. The ones who will look you right in the face and go "I ain't fuckin doing that, pshhh." If I EVER...EVER said something like that to one of my instructors, oh man, they'd act like they didn't even hear me. Then we'd move into sparring, they'd say they want to show me a new technique, ask me to come at them any way at full speed and power, I would, the next thing I knew I'd wake up in a corner of the room (or off to the side if outdoors) with an ice pack on my neck.
     
  12. cb9fl

    cb9fl White Belt

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    I can't imagine someone actually doing that in a class. I mean you're their of your own free will paying your money to someone for instruction. You've got to trust that the instructor isn't going to make you do something that will cause real damage. The second I find I have to say, "I'm not doing that" is the time I look for a different school.

    So far my instructor hasn't been a hard ass about yawning but I definitely find it disrespectful. If I'm about to yawn I'll try to hold it in which usually ends up with me making some weird mongoloid face. Some jerkoff was chewing gum and the instructor got on him about it. If I was an instructor that, chewing gum, would piss me off to no end.
     
  13. Falero

    Falero Black Belt

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    Good guy, no sweat. had a blackbelt with a mild foot handicap, this made it possible for me combined with my bigger size to throw him easy at times, who said I lacked the natural talent for Judo, which got me down bad. I really think he didn
     
  14. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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  15. Cap'n

    Cap'n <img src="http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1955/

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    My two instructors act about the same way, for the most part very encouraging, but when they know I could be doing better, they get more stern, and fuck around too annoy me, in an attempt to get my head in the game sorta thing. Like if I'm sparring with one trainer, and he knows I'm being lazy, he'll pull some karate kid shit to mock me, but if I'm focused, he's focused.

    As odd as that may sound, it's all in good fun, and actually really works to keep the students focused and on track.
     
  16. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    My trainer goes harder on me than anybody else. This could be because we are related. Pisses me off sometimes.
     
  17. SKD

    SKD Blue Belt

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    My boxing trainer knows when I'm not going hard enough, and yells at me and calls me things like "softcock" haha. It is almost like he knows whether I'm losing it due to actual tiredness (where he encourages me) or whether I'm just being a little lazy (that's when he starts the yelling and name calling).

    I don't mind it, that is just the way he is.
     
  18. moodymikey

    moodymikey Blue Belt

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    its the exact same at the place i train as well. Theres one trainer called Stuart who is very laid back, and shows the technique but i dont feel he really pushes me as hard as he could do. The other trainer, Gary pushes me really hard and is definitely the baddest cop there is.
     
  19. DJGMuayThai

    DJGMuayThai Guest

    You want an instructor who instructs..My instructor are usually pretty neutral. If your doing something wrong..they will correct you..if your doing something right..they'll tell you and try to perfect it.
     

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