A-AKG and regular arginine

[supersudo]

ok, my question is "what's the difference between regular L-Arginine, and Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate???"... the price difference is HUGE and aren't they essentially the same exact thing?

what's so special about 'alpha-ketglutarate'??

 

[supersudo]

o yeh.. and what the diff between L-Arginine and L-Arginine HCl... if anyone knows

 

[Madmick]

AAKG is like Gakic; it's just a ketoacid coupled with the amino acid Arginine. As for the difference in what it does: nothing, presumably, since Terumo explained the science of it, and NO Boosters are bunk.

As for HCl, that's just hydrochloric acid aka hydrogen chloride aka muriatic acid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
I've quoted the important parts:

Hydrochloric acid is considered a strong acid, since it is practically fully dissociated in water...
Of the seven common strong acids in chemistry, all of them inorganic, hydrochloric acid is the monoprotic acid least likely to undergo an interfering oxidation-reduction reaction. It is one of the least hazardous strong acids to handle; despite its acidity, it produces the less reactive and non-toxic chloride ion. Intermediate strength hydrochloric acid solutions are quite stable, maintaining their concentrations over time. These attributes, plus the fact that it is available as a pure reagent, means that hydrochloric acid makes an excellent acidifying reagent and acid titrant (for determining the amount of an unknown quantity of base in titration). Strong acid titrants are useful because they give more distinct endpoints in a titration, making the titration more precise.

If anyone gets stuck on this, feel free to ask.

Why they would do this to Arginine aside from the above reasons, I don't know. Maybe it's cheaper to produce than the L-Arginine form? I know that Terumo specified- for the few amino acids that are useful as sports supplements when taken in isolation- they should be free form.

 

[supersudo]

AAKG is like Gakic; it's just a ketoacid coupled with the amino acid Arginine. As for the difference in what it does: nothing, presumably, since Terumo explained the science of it, and NO Boosters are bunk.

As for HCl, that's just hydrochloric acid aka hydrogen chloride aka muriatic acid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
I've quoted the important parts:

If anyone gets stuck on this, feel free to ask.

Why they would do this to Arginine aside from the above reasons, I don't know. Maybe it's cheaper to produce than the L-Arginine form? I know that Terumo specified- for the few amino acids that are useful as sports supplements when taken in isolation- they should be free form.

he didn't say it was "bunk".. he just said that there are better ways to do the same thing.. his analogy was if i remember correctly:

"it's like using saline to rehydrate urself"

but the benefits of arginine look pretty cool.. i might spend a little dough on some L-arginine since it's like 2x cheaper than A-AKG..

terumo said that u can do the same stuff by manipulating diet.. what foods enlarge ur blood vessels to increase blood flow?.. i wana do that

 

[Madmick]

he didn't say it was "bunk".. he just said that there are better ways to do the same thing.. his analogy was if i remember correctly:

"it's like using saline to rehydrate urself"

but the benefits of arginine look pretty cool.. i might spend a little dough on some L-arginine since it's like 2x cheaper than A-AKG..

terumo said that u can do the same stuff by manipulating diet.. what foods enlarge ur blood vessels to increase blood flow?.. i wana do that

You misread Terumo's post, Supersudo. He firmly stated that AKG or AAKG only increase the arginine levels in the blood where we already have a superfluity of arginine there, but does not act on the conversion agent to NO (for vasodilation), so essentially the AAKG does nothing.

What he said caused the positive effect in products like NO-Xplode was the dextrose included that caused the insulin flux. The analogy was one of cost effectiveness; saline will rehydrate your body, but it's expensive fluid. Why use saline to hydrate your body when water is free? Why pay $65 for two canisters of NO-Xplode when dextrose is $2/lb?

Remember, too, that maltodextrin/dextrose/high-GI carbs are best taken during or after a workout, not before. All the creatine NO boosters I have seen direct your to take the supplement before your workout (since the supposed vasodilation is what enables you to get "the pumps" during the workout).

I don't recall him saying any foods cause vasodilation, I thought he just mentioned the insulin flux, but I'm not certain on this point. Perhaps there are some foods that manipulate that conversion agent.

Don't waste your money on L-Arginine, you already have more in your blood than your body is using.

 

[supersudo]

You misread Terumo's post, Supersudo. He firmly stated that AKG or AAKG only increase the arginine levels in the blood where we already have a superfluity of arginine there, but does not act on the conversion agent to NO (for vasodilation), so essentially the AAKG does nothing.

What he said caused the positive effect in products like NO-Xplode was the dextrose included that caused the insulin flux. The analogy was one of cost effectiveness; saline will rehydrate your body, but it's expensive fluid. Why use saline to hydrate your body when water is free? Why pay $65 for two canisters of NO-Xplode when dextrose is $2/lb?

Remember, too, that maltodextrin/dextrose/high-GI carbs are best taken during or after a workout, not before. All the creatine NO boosters I have seen direct your to take the supplement before your workout (since the supposed vasodilation is what enables you to get "the pumps" during the workout).

I don't recall him saying any foods cause vasodilation, I thought he just mentioned the insulin flux, but I'm not certain on this point. Perhaps there are some foods that manipulate that conversion agent.

Don't waste your money on L-Arginine, you already have more in your blood than your body is using.

hey.. thanks for clarifying that! props mick! :wink: