*5 points arising from UFC 196, aka McGregor vs Diaz, aka Global Red Panty Night*

Kelman

Banned
Banned
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
6,990
Reaction score
0
1.Conor's mental game - wildly overblown media nonsense

I really like MMA analyst Luke Thomas, but he always annoys me by harping on about how hugely important and powerful Conor's mental game is. It's the kind of silliness I would expect from the more feeble-minded/exciteable/infantile members of the MMA media like Ariel Helwani, but not serious analysts like Luke.

Last night proved that all this stuff about Conor's mental strength is so, so, so wildly overblown.

You can be the most confident, composed, determined, fearless, psychological game-player on the planet.... but all of that counts for nothing, absolutely nothing, if you get clipped and hurt and finished, or gas out and can't go on, or simply meet someone with vastly superior technical skill in one or more areas and get outfought.

Luke often stated he would find it very difficult to pick against Conor because McG's mentality was such that it just would not allow or accept defeat..... a theory which counted for absolutely jack shit in reality, as I and many people knew it would, because you can talk mentalities till the cows come home, but it's a physiological fact that clean punches hurt, that poor cardio can get exposed, and when both things happen you're liable to get badly fucked up, mental game or no mental game. A mentality cannot ensure you have sufficient cardio for 5 rounds or teach you how to defend chokes.

This sport is primarily a technical and physical endeavour. This has to be understood and accepted. The mental game stuff is mostly just media silliness for the build-up, the cameras, 90% of fighters implement their game regardless of whether someone makes fun of them in an interview or not. It's idiotic. Fans need to grow up and realize that making people laugh at a press conference does not make your opponent's punches hurt less in the cage, or make their BJJ game or their striking magically inferior to yours if they're actually significantly better. It's beyond stupid.

Mystic Mac? Please.

--

2.This fight exposed strategic, technical, and cerebral deficiencies in Conor's (striking) game

Let us be clear - Nate Diaz is far from unbeatable on the feet. A minimum of three fighters already in the UFC have already comprehensively beaten him in what were mostly stand-up fights. Nate was barely competitive across three fights with Benson Henderson, Rafael dos Anjos, and Josh Thomson. I don't think he won one round in those three bouts, if I'm remembering them as clearly as I think I am. All three guys fought in a similar sort of way, so the template was already laid down, it was pretty damn obvious how to dominate and defeat Nate Diaz - move around him, not to him, throw a lot of kicks, and counter his leading shots. That's what all three guys did, and all three of them dealt with Nate in dominant and fairly easy fashion. Ok, with Benson and RDA, they also mixed in takedowns, and the threat of the TD may have had some bearing on how the striking portions of the fight went, but the stand-up was so one-sided and so much time was spent purely striking that it would be silly to write those kickboxing masterclasses off as just Nate being outwrestled. And that argument can't even apply to Diaz vs Thomson, where he got destroyed and KO'd on the feet, absolutely fair & square and clear as day. Conor stepped to Nate, tried to rely on single-shot punches to knock him out, failed, gassed, and got battered. Awful gameplan and tactics and execution, and suggests that Conor may simply not be as good of a striker/student of the game/all-round fighter as those three proven-quality lightweights.

--

3.Conor would have been destroyed by Rafael dos Anjos, and should never even think about challenging for the welterweight strap. Ludicrous delusions of grandeur

Conor was finished in 2 rounds by a top 10/borderline top 5 lightweight on 11 days notice. He lost because he couldnt get the KO, gassed, ate some punches from a decent but not vicious puncher, and then had nothing on the ground once the fight went there. The thought of what RDA would have done to him is scary. RDA has a proven chin himself, proven 5-round cardio, proven punching (and kicking power) at 155lbs, and way better takedowns and top control/top game than Nate. He would have eaten McGregor alive. Conor should be thanking his lucky stars that the "bruised foot" happened. And I'm not even going to go into detail on how stupid the idea of Conor challenging Robbie Lawler is, it doesn't merit it. The dumbest MMA idea since there was a movement to have Chris Weidman challenge Jon Jones at 205. Delusional nonsense.

--

4.Conor's groundgame and TDD issues have to make you think that both Aldo and Edgar have a formidable case for devouring McGregor in upcoming featherweight fights

We saw some truly pathetic TDD and BJJ bottom-game from Conor in the Mendes fight, but his cross-eyed foaming-mouthed fanatical supporters convinced themselves that he was really the white Jacare Souza and that every failing on show was due to a mysterious injury that never came out till after the fight. I think these goons must just accept now that these issues are very real, and that unless McGregor starts working with the best trainers available in these areas and takes urgent steps to improve his game, this weakness is going to be horribly exposed by proven elite well-rounded fighters like Aldo and Edgar, who have both shown excellent takedown and top games in MMA

--

5.McGregor is nowhere near the top of the food chain in MMA in terms of all-round ability

Jon Jones, Demetrious Johnson, Dominick Cruz are the top of the pile. Rafael dos Anjos, Luke Rockhold, Fabricio Werdum, Jose Aldo, Frankie Edgar, and more following on from them. These guys have all proven their abilities in every phase of MMA, in different types of fights versus different types of top opponents. Conor McGregor is an amazing striker with awesome power... and that appears to be all. He deserves to be pound-for-pound ranked because the win over Aldo was sensational, but to consider him the equal of guys like Jones, Johnson and Cruz is silly. He is a very effective but limited fighter, and needs a hell of a lot of work on his game to be getting close to that level.






In short, "Have I been wrong yet? Have I been wrong yet?" Yes, you have. Many people were. Back to the drawing-board, it's time to get serious or go home.
 
Oh well, back to starving himself so he can continue fighting midgets I guess.
 
The brevity employed in this post underwhelms me, but I get the gist.
 
Conor fans all too busy sobbing into their purple pillows to talk fighting today??
 
Sounds like that's the plan.

Nice read, thanks for the topic/post.

A bit off topic question: what do you think will happen if he ever fights Benson Henderson, does Bellator have a better fighter then Conor there.

Did UFC screw up with letting that caliber of a fighter go ?
 
Some of your points I agree with but I really don't think rda would have beat Conor. Rda is way smaller then Nate. Less reach. Conor would hit him way easier and I don't think he can take the shots like Diaz. Diaz has a chin on him no question
 
Some of your points I agree with but I really don't think rda would have beat Conor. Rda is way smaller then Nate. Less reach. Conor would hit him way easier and I don't think he can take the shots like Diaz. Diaz has a chin on him no question

Couldnt disagree more. Disregarding the fact that RDA beat the living shit out of Nate, RDA vs McGregor would be way less competitive than McGregor vs Diaz was. RDA is a much stronger, better wrestler than Nate, with way better takedowns and a better, more brutal top game. Here's how that fight would play out:

Ding ding.
Takedown.
Ouch.
Oblivion.
 
i just dont get Dana and the UFCs thinking?? Did they trust Connor that much?? Did they buy into the hype or Connors confidence so much they risk a huge, huge cash cows aura being killed fighting 2 weight classes higher??


its a bad business move. for everybody involved. RDA for sure lost the most easy $ last night but really they shouldnt have been feeding Connor to him, knowingly or not, if they cared about $ anyways.
 
Couldnt disagree more. Disregarding the fact that RDA beat the living shit out of Nate, RDA vs McGregor would be way less competitive than McGregor vs Diaz was. RDA is a much stronger, better wrestler than Nate, with way better takedowns and a better, more brutal top game. Here's how that fight would play out:

Ding ding.
Takedown.
Ouch.
Oblivion.

They are different style of fighters. If rda had gone toe to toe with Nate in a boxing oriented stand up fight he probably would have lost,
He beat Nate by mixing it up but let's be honest, he basically beat Nate by leg kicking him to death.
 
They are different style of fighters. If rda had gone toe to toe with Nate in a boxing oriented stand up fight he probably would have lost,
He beat Nate by mixing it up but let's be honest, he basically beat Nate by leg kicking him to death.

Where did I say they were another remotely like similar fighters?

Not my point at all. That's why I didn't make it.

RDA would use a grappling-based approach and would dominate & defeat Conor much easier than Nate did.
 
i just dont get Dana and the UFCs thinking?? Did they trust Connor that much?? Did they buy into the hype or Connors confidence so much they risk a huge, huge cash cows aura being killed fighting 2 weight classes higher??


its a bad business move. for everybody involved. RDA for sure lost the most easy $ last night but really they shouldnt have been feeding Connor to him, knowingly or not, if they cared about $ anyways.

Nate isnt really a welterweight though. Considering their respective performances over the past couple of years, the UFC probably thought Conor was the surefire winner here. You must admit, McGregor getting fucked up the feet then tapping out in the 2nd round was pretty unexpected!!
 
Nate isnt really a welterweight though. Considering their respective performances over the past couple of years, the UFC probably thought Conor was the surefire winner here. You must admit, McGregor getting fucked up the feet then tapping out in the 2nd round was pretty unexpected!!

is it?? Nate is known to be tough as hell. Its a dangerous fight for your golden boy cash cow to take on short notice.

Conor obv has brass balls but Dana needed to protect his investment better here. I would be mad if im a UFC stock holder. Pull Conor, cancel the event or w/e but dont put him in such a risky fight vs a very game, experienced vet who has great boxing and is undoubtedly better on the ground. Not even mentioning the size/height that Conor has never dealt with.

Dana and Co bought the hype more than your average casual around here did is all i can take from this debacle. Amateur hour. Abrum must be laughing his ass off somewhere.
 
You wrote a lot, I didnt read all of it but one interesting point you made which i agree with is that the blueprint to beating a diaz has been laid out and conor thinking too big of himself thought he could KO him which I think was his biggest mistake. if he fought smart he could have easily won. But thats not really conor he does things differently and thats why I like conor.
 
Thank you for the post.

I just think maybe that Conor McGregor already is aware of his weaknesses and strengths. At age 27/28, as a professional fighter with multiple fights, it is safe to assume that McGregor has an idea of what he is/isn't capable of.

As for Dana White fucking up, he is a businessman. I'm just assuming here but Conor McGregor is not the game, he is just a fighter. Yes, the aura is gone, but UFC won't die because of Conor's loss. I would imagine that the UFC will continue to get their money. Plus, Conor McGregor would have probably left after fighting three/four times; that is completely shitty for the UFC.
 
Thank you for the post.

I just think maybe that Conor McGregor already is aware of his weaknesses and strengths. At age 27/28, as a professional fighter with multiple fights, it is safe to assume that McGregor has an idea of what he is/isn't capable of

Obviously you are wrong though.

McGregor had been submitted twice early in his career, and repeatedly taken down and controlled on the ground by Chad Mendes.

He talks a lot about his "killer ground game", about slicing through Nate's guard, about taking his leg home with him, and so on and so forth, but it seems like Conor has not been seeking training with the best BJJ guys available, that he has been working on the assumption that his striking is so good he doesn't really need to evolve his grappling.

As we saw on Saturday when he fought someone he couldn't knock out, he is still absolutely clueless and helpless on the ground. So Conor clearly didn't realize what he was and was not capable of... but he probably does now. Had to learn the hard way!
 
Oh well, back to starving himself so he can continue fighting midgets I guess.
no more steaks for breakfast?

AAgh0ao.img
 
Obviously you are wrong though.

McGregor had been submitted twice early in his career, and repeatedly taken down and controlled on the ground by Chad Mendes.

He talks a lot about his "killer ground game", about slicing through Nate's guard, about taking his leg home with him, and so on and so forth, but it seems like Conor has not been seeking training with the best BJJ guys available, that he has been working on the assumption that his striking is so good he doesn't really need to evolve his grappling.

As we saw on Saturday when he fought someone he couldn't knock out, he is still absolutely clueless and helpless on the ground. So Conor clearly didn't realize what he was and was not capable of... but he probably does now. Had to learn the hard way!

Yes, I know, that's what we hear from him. "Crushing Nate's hips in Nate's guard", lol...

However, why would McGregor publicly state, and let it known, that he doesn't have a "killer ground game" if he, clearly, doesn't possess such skills? He could be just absolutely delusional, yes, but he might be talking just shit like he does, always. Is Conor that delusional? A professional, a UFC caliber, MMA fighter thinking to him/herself, "I'm so good that I don't really need to evolve my grappling."?

McGregor started fighting a long time ago. What makes you think he hasn't, at least, tried to fix his faults? Especially after getting submitted twice in the past? I don't know but would you really ask this question to a fighter? "Why you do keep getting knocked out? Shouldn't you go and learn how to box/strike?".

Also, I remember hearing Conor seeking challenges at BJJ gyms, unlike other UFC fighters. I think Eddie Bravo stated that on JRE podcast. Of course, that might be total bullshit. Regardless, what I meant to say is that Conor has tried but isn't capable of doing it, especially against a fighter like Diaz.
 
Yes, I know, that's what we hear from him. "Crushing Nate's hips in Nate's guard", lol...

However, why would McGregor publicly state, and let it known, that he doesn't have a "killer ground game" if he, clearly, doesn't possess such skills? He could be just absolutely delusional, yes, but he might be talking just shit like he does, always. Is Conor that delusional? A professional, a UFC caliber, MMA fighter thinking to him/herself, "I'm so good that I don't really need to evolve my grappling."?

McGregor started fighting a long time ago. What makes you think he hasn't, at least, tried to fix his faults? Especially after getting submitted twice in the past? I don't know but would you really ask this question to a fighter? "Why you do keep getting knocked out? Shouldn't you go and learn how to box/strike?".

Also, I remember hearing Conor seeking challenges at BJJ gyms, unlike other UFC fighters. I think Eddie Bravo stated that on JRE podcast. Of course, that might be total bullshit. Regardless, what I meant to say is that Conor has tried but isn't capable of doing it, especially against a fighter like Diaz.

His BJJ coach is John Kavanagh. He doesn't go seeking any of the best BJJ trainers in the world. I think it was Patrick Wyman who remarked on BATB that the Kavanagh/McGregor style of BJJ is "old-fashioned". If McG was serious about developing a "killer ground game", he would surely have gone to Brazil or the USA and spent a prolonged time training with some of the best in the game, and ascending up the belt levels. We know he has the money to do this, but he hasn't done it. No amount of excuse-making and guesswork can change these facts.
 
Back
Top