30 for 30 - Fantastic Lies

[MoparOrNoCar]

Anyone watch this episode about the Duke Lacrosse team? It was one of the best 30 for 30's I've seen so far. I didn't really follow the story back when it happened so I just assumed everything went down the way the media said. The episode was pretty similar to the Making a Murderer documentary. That DA Nifong should be in prison for life.

 

[Graves The Elder]

dvr'd it. sposed to be good.
thanks for the review.
looking forward to it.

 

[Revolver]

It was really good. Glad the DA got disbarred at the very least.

 

[lts5025]

They do a really good job of not starting with the conclusion. It's 2 hours long and almost plays like a movie. They don't sugarcoat anything, but present things in an evenhanded matter. That said, one day in jail is not nearly enough for Nifong. Willingly excluding exculpatory evidence that would land someone in jail for 30 years deserves more than a disbarment.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

They do a really good job of not starting with the conclusion. It's 2 hours long and almost plays like a movie. They don't sugarcoat anything, but present things in an evenhanded matter. That said, one day in jail is not nearly enough for Nifong. Willingly excluding exculpatory evidence that would land someone in jail for 30 years deserves more than a disbarment.

Didn't they also say they just freed an innocent man he prosecuted after spending 20 years in jail? If you're caught trying to put people away that are obviously innocent, you should have to serve whatever sentence it is that you're trying to impose on them.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Watched the beginning. The stripper is in jail now for 2nd degree murder. What a mess that was.

also, the Allen Iverson 30 for 30 was a good one too. It was about Iverson's high school assault.

 

[lts5025]

Didn't they also say they just freed an innocent man he prosecuted after spending 20 years in jail? If you're caught trying to put people away that are obviously innocent, you should have to serve whatever sentence it is that you're trying to impose on them.

They said he got a new trial, not that he was exonerated. But I won't be shocked if he winds up being innocent.

The one thing that really infuriates me is that even after this Duke mess, we still have shit like the UVA Rolling Stone article, the Columbia mattress girl and the guy from The Hunting Ground. Nobody in the media has learned their lesson it seems.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

They said he got a new trial, not that he was exonerated. But I won't be shocked if he winds up being innocent.

The one thing that really infuriates me is that even after this Duke mess, we still have shit like the UVA Rolling Stone article, the Columbia mattress girl and the guy from The Hunting Ground. Nobody in the media has learned their lesson it seems.

Thanks it was really late when I watched it so I couldn't remember exactly what it said.

I'll be checking out those 3 subjects tomorrow. Thank you.

 

[Workers United]

Nifong is evil, and the woman was obviously mentally unstable.

That being said, I didn't like that 30/30 puff piece. Even though I acknowledge that it was an gross injustice that they were accused of rape, (considering the evidence--however I'm not convinced they were all innocent of any crime) the documentary didn't have to make all of them out to be saints in order to make that point, and this was its failure.

I mean obviously some mistreatment went down at that party. Not saying rape, but there were witnesses that heard the lacrosse members calling her the N word. The documentary glossed over that fact.

That documentary also didn't even touch on the fact that so many rapes go unreported so it was understandable that people came out in support of the perceived victim. These are real issues.

We gain nothing from turning a group of guys who hired strippers and drank a lot and turning them into choir boys.

 

[Pliny Pete]

I still think they did it

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

Nifong is evil, and the woman was obviously mentally unstable.

That being said, I didn't like that 30/30 puff piece. Even though I acknowledge that it was an gross injustice that they were accused of rape, (considering the evidence--however I'm not convinced they were all innocent of any crime) the documentary didn't have to make all of them out to be saints in order to make that point, and this was its failure.

I mean obviously some mistreatment went down at that party. Not saying rape, but there were witnesses that heard the lacrosse members calling her the N word. The documentary glossed over that fact.

That documentary also didn't even touch on the fact that so many rapes go unreported so it was understandable that people came out in support of the perceived victim. These are real issues.

We gain nothing from turning a group of guys who hired strippers and drank a lot and turning them into choir boys.

I thought they did a good job of playing both sides. They had numerous people on there saying while they didn't commit rape, what they still did was immoral. They went over them calling her the N word and that ridiculous email with the movie quotes that got the kid kicked off the team.

 

[Workers United]

I thought they did a good job of playing both sides. They had numerous people on there saying while they didn't commit rape, what they still did was immoral. They went over them calling her the N word and that ridiculous email with the movie quotes that got the kid kicked off the team.

Really, so like one mention of them calling her the "N" word, and a few minutes of the email, compared to an hour and 45 minutes of how good and brave they were and countless interviews with their parents about how strong they all had to be, and the captain doing this big speech as if all of these frat boys were a bunch of heroes? Yes, it's giving both sides, but heavily slanted towards one.

I mean it's very possible some type of assault or sexual harassment occurred, and yet those players will never be punished for it. That's just as much a part of the real story as what they showed. I felt it was a pure propaganda piece.

It's also very suspicious that they team didn't speak out at all until (it appears) they found out there wasn't much evidence against them.

Also instead of saying, "Even though we were falsely accused, it's important to recognize so many rapes go unpunished" that one guy was like, "Well now nobody is going to believe when women actually get raped" as if that was the lesson. Nope, the real lesson is that the criminal justice system is corrupt, but at the same time the jock culture you were a part of results in countless innumerable sexual assaults every single year on campuses with no repercussions to the perpetrator.

 

[theskza]

Really, so like one mention of them calling her the "N" word, and a few minutes of the email, compared to an hour and 45 minutes of how good and brave they were and countless interviews with their parents about how strong they all had to be, and the captain doing this big speech as if all of these frat boys were a bunch of heroes? Yes, it's giving both sides, but heavily slanted towards one.

I mean it's very possible some type of assault or sexual harassment occurred, and yet those players will never be punished for it. That's just as much a part of the real story as what they showed. I felt it was a pure propaganda piece.

It's also very suspicious that they team didn't speak out at all until (it appears) they found out there wasn't much evidence against them.

Also instead of saying, "Even though we were falsely accused, it's important to recognize so many rapes go unpunished" that one guy was like, "Well now nobody is going to believe when women actually get raped" as if that was the lesson. Nope, the real lesson is that the criminal justice system is corrupt, but at the same time the jock culture you were a part of results in countless innumerable sexual assaults every single year on campuses with no repercussions to the perpetrator.

So you're saying the documentary shouldn't be slanted, yet you want someone on there to change his thoughts and opinion?

Kinda backwards.

 

[My Spot]

Nifong only spent a whopping 24 hours in jail.

 

[My Spot]

So you're saying the documentary shouldn't be slanted, yet you want someone on there to change his thoughts and opinion?

Kinda backwards.

Don't bother, he was probably triggered by the show.

 

[Workers United]

So you're saying the documentary shouldn't be slanted, yet you want someone on there to change his thoughts and opinion?

Kinda backwards.

I was making a point and I think it went a bit above your head, but that's ok. I was illustrating that the type of attitude they had, after the fact, was further proof that the documentary should not have heroized them.

 

[DangDaGawd]

Nifong is evil, and the woman was obviously mentally unstable.

That being said, I didn't like that 30/30 puff piece. Even though I acknowledge that it was an gross injustice that they were accused of rape, (considering the evidence--however I'm not convinced they were all innocent of any crime) the documentary didn't have to make all of them out to be saints in order to make that point, and this was its failure.

I mean obviously some mistreatment went down at that party. Not saying rape, but there were witnesses that heard the lacrosse members calling her the N word. The documentary glossed over that fact.

That documentary also didn't even touch on the fact that so many rapes go unreported so it was understandable that people came out in support of the perceived victim. These are real issues.

We gain nothing from turning a group of guys who hired strippers and drank a lot and turning them into choir boys.

No one in the documentary turned them into choir boys. I'm not sure you actually watched it.

 

[DangDaGawd]

I was making a point and I think it went a bit above your head, but that's ok. I was illustrating that the type of attitude they had, after the fact, was further proof that the documentary should not have heroized them.

Again, no one in the documentary "heroized" them. Next time you watch something like this, look in the mirror and ask yourself what biases you're bringing with you when you watch it. Don't ignore these opportunities for personal growth.

 

[Frank23]

Nifong only spent a whopping 24 hours in jail.

What a joke.

 

[Workers United]

No one in the documentary turned them into choir boys. I'm not sure you actually watched it.

I guess we'll agree to disagree because when one side gets all of the emotional investiture, and all the interior background and parental commentary, along with the high emotional point of the captain's speech, which was uncritically dealt with, and tinged along a redemption narrative, then I believe the documentary indeed turned them into innocent victims and heroes. If you listened to the parents talking, you would think these were angels they were talking about. "(insert player) was always quiet/a leader/cared about his friends."