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2nd Degree Battery Charge, Self Defense?

bigben89

White Belt
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Okay, so a little background info first, I've been boxing for 6 years, kickboxing and mma for 2, powerlifting and weightlifting before that. i stand 5 10 200 lbs. every bit muscle. The setting is a night club downtown where i was the one and only bouncer, and regular clothes were the uniform, incognito security, if you will.

Its a saturday night, approximatly 12am, one of my bartender's approaches me and tells me to get this ''big guy'' to pay his tab and be on his way. I walk up to the individual, who stands about six and a half feet and 300 lbs, real big corn fed mofo, and in my usual assertive but proffesional manner ask him to kindly pay his tab and leave. He informs me that he does not have a tab, and didn't do anything wrong, and so refuses. Slightly, confused i trek back to the bartender and confirm the story with details and have him point the guy out again. he does, its the same guy. On the second approach I walk up and with a little less patience ask him again to pay his tab and leave. (according to the bartender, he snatched his redbull and double vodka up and tossed his 5 dollar bill on the floor behind the bar, leaving a balance of 5 more dollars.) He gets so close that his upper stomach is now on my shoulder, and leans down to yell that he paid his effin tab and he hasnt done anything, so he's not leaving. at this point i wish to create some distance, so i put my hands on his chest and create a little space, not violently mind you, not a shove just showing him that he's much too close. Also at this point I have several times identified myself as security. The behemoth reaches down grabbing my shirt on both sides under my arms and lifts me into to the air, tearing my (new, expensive) shirt down the inseams, and popping buttons off all the way down, i mean afterwards the thing was shredded, and begins to ragdoll me from one side to the other. i grabbed his arms and tried to over power him but it wasnt even a contest, as i couldnt even firmly plant my feet. after about 2 or 3 seconds i realized that to get him to let go i was gonna have to hit him. my left foot makes contact with the floor and i pivot while throwing a long left hook followed quickly by a right straight. his head snapped back and he let me go, then, pandomonium breaks loose, i assume ppl thought it was just a bar fight because of my plain clothes, so all his buddies (they were here from houston for a wedding) 3 of them or so run at me and begin trying to grab me and pull me away, everytime one grabs me i push them off and step away, all the time trying to identify myself as security. Then, out of the crowd, here comes the big guy. he came at me with his head lowered, and a bit slow, i side stepped and began winging right uppercuts into his face which is more or less at my waist level and pointed at the ground. i think i may have hit him 3 or 4 times before he fell, by this time, my manager, a guy who trains with me runs up and grabs me and ask me whats goin on. i said im cool the guy attacked me, and he runs over to pick him up off the ground. dude is covered in blood, i mean alot of it. i think all those upper cuts landed right on his nose, because my hand wasnt even bruised. the owner comes down after the guys been removed by my manager, and ask me what happened, then tells me to go home because of my shirt. my motorcycle was broken down at the time, so he got one of the employees downstairs to give me a ride back to my house.

fast forward a couple of months. im chilliin in my house and the police come, surround my house, knock and put me in cuffs. 2nd degree battery. i bonded out, and i dont have the money for a good lawyer for a felony (7 grand) so i have to go with the court appointed public defender. ive been to several of the court dates, and reviewed the evidence, nothing shows up on the videos at the club, and he has 3 witnesses that have testified on audio files that my lawyer has allowed me to hear. My boss is claiming that he sent me home before the incident occured, which is not true, he's trying to absolve himself and the club of responsibility, my manager alledgedly moved to california, and the bartender that told me to throw the dude out said in his official statement that ''he didnt know anyone naed ben that worked there while he did'' so i have no witnesses.

They've offered me a plea, simple battery, 6 month's parish jail time suspended for 1 year probation and boykin (sp?) basicly meaning i have to officially admit to commiting the battery, and pay restitution, which he is claiming beyond the superficial injuries, 5 shattered teeth, and over 5000 dollars in medical bills. My public defender is a can, and dosent want to defend me in felony court, or really do anything at all. so... Anybody got advice??? or any sherdogger lawyers wanna help a fellow sherdogger probono? BTW im from louisiana, which is under napolionic code for some reason. in 2013.

CLIFFS:
bouncer at nightclub
big guy and friends tried to fuk me up
got beat down in self defense
getting fuked by the long dik of the law.
 
If I could help you I would dude, that sux >.< Good luck man, I hope you can get help for this.
 
Hell of a "team" you got working at that bar.
 
You sound like one tough mofo. I have never seen a story like this posted on the SD before. Boxing for 6 years, kickboxing and MMA for 2 years, and powerlifting for more. 5'11, 2 bills of muscle. Nothing but muscle. I'll be sure to steer clear of Shreveport should I ever find myself south of Dixie, cuz you are clearly one bad muhfucka.
 
For future reference, use paragraphs.

I can't practice in LA, sorry. From what you said, it doesn't sound too excessive. Theoretically you can defend yourself from imminent harm until you can retreat safely.

However, you may have lost any chance of a self-defense claim by initiating contact. Seems like you were the aggressor. That usually matters in most states.
 
For future reference, use paragraphs.

I can't practice in LA, sorry. From what you said, it doesn't sound too excessive. Theoretically you can defend yourself from imminent harm until you can retreat safely.

However, you may have lost any chance of a self-defense claim by initiating contact. Seems like you were the aggressor. That usually matters in most states.

he touched me first, chest to chest. i was just making space. does that still qualify me as the aggressor? also, i have a security ABO, and i was doing my job, if people wont leave when asked, i'm allowed to escort them physicly....
 
images
 
You sound like one tough mofo. I have never seen a story like this posted on the SD before. Boxing for 6 years, kickboxing and MMA for 2 years, and powerlifting for more. 5'11, 2 bills of muscle. Nothing but muscle. I'll be sure to steer clear of Shreveport should I ever find myself south of Dixie, cuz you are clearly one bad muhfucka.

can't prove the legal situation, but ill pm you my FB if you wanna see the ''2 bills of muscle'' lol.not every story on sherdog is some little man seeking acceptance on an mma forum. i really just wanted advice, and i know there are people on here with knowledge in different areas. i just figured it was worth a shot to see some other people's opinions.
 
can't prove the legal situation, but ill pm you my FB if you wanna see the ''2 bills of muscle'' lol.not every story on sherdog is some little man seeking acceptance on an mma forum. i really just wanted advice, and i know there are people on here with knowledge in different areas. i just figured it was worth a shot to see some other people's opinions.

You know what? PM me a link to this FB profile and we'll see what's up. Of course, you could just be PM'ing me a profile of your far more jacked friend or a total stranger, but I'll opt to take you at your word.
 
GL mang.


BTW, was the club Fangtasia? I hear that place gets rough.
 
I think you have a case for self-defense, but it's going to be difficult with the shitty public defender and no witnesses. Your only real chance is to claim that you feared for your life and physical well being.

Didn't you say his 3 friends started to surround you? Did they appear as if they were going to attack you? If so, you have a real case. 4 vs 1 is a completely different story.

I'd also be very sure to clarify that the other guy made the first violent move by picking you up by your shirt. I would say you threw the punch, because you feared he was going to slam you into something. Also, say you quit punching him once you realized he was not longer a threat. Legally, you are allowed to use necessary means to defend yourself. As long as you stop once your attacker is no longer a threat, it's technically legal self defense.

Unfortunately, the law is pretty fucked up, and the fact that you bloodied him up will say many peoples' opinions. In my opinion, you did nothing wrong. I'm not sure how the court will see it. Just try to do your best to claim you only used necessary means to defend yourself.
 
he touched me first, chest to chest. i was just making space. does that still qualify me as the aggressor? also, i have a security ABO, and i was doing my job, if people wont leave when asked, i'm allowed to escort them physicly....

I'm not sure you can legally. Bouncers are usually liable for physically escorting if it gets too rough.

Him touching you chest to chest might not warrant a shove. You could have stepped away.

It sounds especially poor because he seems to have witnesses to back his version of events.
 
I'm not sure you can legally. Bouncers are usually liable for physically escorting if it gets too rough.

Him touching you chest to chest might not warrant a shove. You could have stepped away.

It sounds especially poor because he seems to have witnesses to back his version of events.



You're a lawyer?
 
I think you have a case for self-defense, but it's going to be difficult with the shitty public defender and no witnesses. Your only real chance is to claim that you feared for your life and physical well being.

Didn't you say his 3 friends started to surround you? Did they appear as if they were going to attack you? If so, you have a real case. 4 vs 1 is a completely different story.

I'd also be very sure to clarify that the other guy made the first violent move by picking you up by your shirt. I would say you threw the punch, because you feared he was going to slam you into something. Also, say you quit punching him once you realized he was not longer a threat. Legally, you are allowed to use necessary means to defend yourself. As long as you stop once your attacker is no longer a threat, it's technically legal self defense.

Unfortunately, the law is pretty fucked up, and the fact that you bloodied him up will say many peoples' opinions. In my opinion, you did nothing wrong. I'm not sure how the court will see it. Just try to do your best to claim you only used necessary means to defend yourself.

They didn't attack me, but they were grabbing me from behind and holding my arms while that animal was still loose. i DID feel for my life, in a sense. i mean, i didnt have any back up on the way, and it was too crowded to get myself away. plus, i dont know about you, but i'm not turning my back to a situation like that. and all of this happened in less than 30 seconds. i didnt really have time to think, and surely didnt have time to judge how little force was required to save my ass.
 
I'm not sure you can legally. Bouncers are usually liable for physically escorting if it gets too rough.

Him touching you chest to chest might not warrant a shove. You could have stepped away.

It sounds especially poor because he seems to have witnesses to back his version of events.

It wasnt really a shove... when he put his chest up to mine, or rather, his stomach because of his height, he leaned down to yell in my ear which is often nessecary in a nightclub enviroment due to the loud music but due to his intoxication and caveman like manner, flecks of spit went in my ear and i put my hands on his chest lightly and more or less pushed myself away. like i said, he was a lot bigger than me.
 
You're a lawyer?

Yeah. Though not in his state. LA uses Civil Law, and is unique in that regard in the US. Its a carry over of the French system of law. The rest of the US is common law based.

Here is the most up to date LA law on self-defense I could find. (quick search and selected portions)

 
Okay, so a little background info first, I've been boxing for 6 years, kickboxing and mma for 2, powerlifting and weightlifting before that. i stand 5 10 200 lbs. every bit muscle. The setting is a night club downtown where i was the one and only bouncer, and regular clothes were the uniform, incognito security, if you will.

Its a saturday night, approximatly 12am, one of my bartender's approaches me and tells me to get this ''big guy'' to pay his tab and be on his way. I walk up to the individual, who stands about six and a half feet and 300 lbs, real big corn fed mofo, and in my usual assertive but proffesional manner ask him to kindly pay his tab and leave. He informs me that he does not have a tab, and didn't do anything wrong, and so refuses. Slightly, confused i trek back to the bartender and confirm the story with details and have him point the guy out again. he does, its the same guy. On the second approach I walk up and with a little less patience ask him again to pay his tab and leave. (according to the bartender, he snatched his redbull and double vodka up and tossed his 5 dollar bill on the floor behind the bar, leaving a balance of 5 more dollars.) He gets so close that his upper stomach is now on my shoulder, and leans down to yell that he paid his effin tab and he hasnt done anything, so he's not leaving. at this point i wish to create some distance, so i put my hands on his chest and create a little space, not violently mind you, not a shove just showing him that he's much too close. Also at this point I have several times identified myself as security. The behemoth reaches down grabbing my shirt on both sides under my arms and lifts me into to the air, tearing my (new, expensive) shirt down the inseams, and popping buttons off all the way down, i mean afterwards the thing was shredded, and begins to ragdoll me from one side to the other. i grabbed his arms and tried to over power him but it wasnt even a contest, as i couldnt even firmly plant my feet. after about 2 or 3 seconds i realized that to get him to let go i was gonna have to hit him. my left foot makes contact with the floor and i pivot while throwing a long left hook followed quickly by a right straight. his head snapped back and he let me go, then, pandomonium breaks loose, i assume ppl thought it was just a bar fight because of my plain clothes, so all his buddies (they were here from houston for a wedding) 3 of them or so run at me and begin trying to grab me and pull me away, everytime one grabs me i push them off and step away, all the time trying to identify myself as security. Then, out of the crowd, here comes the big guy. he came at me with his head lowered, and a bit slow, i side stepped and began winging right uppercuts into his face which is more or less at my waist level and pointed at the ground. i think i may have hit him 3 or 4 times before he fell, by this time, my manager, a guy who trains with me runs up and grabs me and ask me whats goin on. i said im cool the guy attacked me, and he runs over to pick him up off the ground. dude is covered in blood, i mean alot of it. i think all those upper cuts landed right on his nose, because my hand wasnt even bruised. the owner comes down after the guys been removed by my manager, and ask me what happened, then tells me to go home because of my shirt. my motorcycle was broken down at the time, so he got one of the employees downstairs to give me a ride back to my house.

fast forward a couple of months. im chilliin in my house and the police come, surround my house, knock and put me in cuffs. 2nd degree battery. i bonded out, and i dont have the money for a good lawyer for a felony (7 grand) so i have to go with the court appointed public defender. ive been to several of the court dates, and reviewed the evidence, nothing shows up on the videos at the club, and he has 3 witnesses that have testified on audio files that my lawyer has allowed me to hear. My boss is claiming that he sent me home before the incident occured, which is not true, he's trying to absolve himself and the club of responsibility, my manager alledgedly moved to california, and the bartender that told me to throw the dude out said in his official statement that ''he didnt know anyone naed ben that worked there while he did'' so i have no witnesses.

They've offered me a plea, simple battery, 6 month's parish jail time suspended for 1 year probation and boykin (sp?) basicly meaning i have to officially admit to commiting the battery, and pay restitution, which he is claiming beyond the superficial injuries, 5 shattered teeth, and over 5000 dollars in medical bills. My public defender is a can, and dosent want to defend me in felony court, or really do anything at all. so... Anybody got advice??? or any sherdogger lawyers wanna help a fellow sherdogger probono? BTW im from louisiana, which is under napolionic code for some reason. in 2013.

CLIFFS:
bouncer at nightclub
big guy and friends tried to fuk me up
got beat down in self defense
getting fuked by the long dik of the law.

Where is the part in this story where you waited for the cops minutes after this incident happened? Aren't you supposed to wait for them? Getting this thing all settled right there on the spot.

He's now got witnesses, probably pictures too. Also, the staff that you worked with seem to be separating themselves from you. You just have your word of events, right?
 
Yeah. Though not in his state. LA uses Civil Law, and is unique in that regard in the US. Its a carry over of the French system of law. The rest of the US is common law based.

Here is the most up to date LA law on self-defense I could find. (quick search and selected portions)
 
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