Elections 26 FBI Informants Present on Jan 6

[Islam Imamate]

You're free to have your opinion, we can just agree to disagree, we can move on and continue to enjoy ourselves busting @Yorick the Wiser chops in the lounge.

At what point is agreeing to disagree over something like this part of the problem? There's mountains of evidence that Trump tried to overturn the election and no evidence that there was outcome determinative voter fraud or that there were federal agents present on Jan 6th much less instigating anything and yet the latter ideas are probably believed more by Americans than the former. Should we agree to disagree over whether or not the Holocaust happened or whether there's a cabal of lizard people controlling the world's governments? At some point its a matter of being detached from reality and not reasonable disagreement over contested matters.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

At what point is agreeing to disagree over something like this part of the problem? There's mountains of evidence that Trump tried to overturn the election and no evidence that there was outcome determinative voter fraud or that there were federal agents present on Jan 6th much less instigating anything and yet the latter ideas are probably believed more by Americans than the former. Should we agree to disagree over whether or not the Holocaust happened or whether there's a cabal of lizard people controlling the world's governments? At some point its a matter of being detached from reality and not reasonable disagreement over contested matters.

I agree with you, but you can only lead a horse to water not make him drink, so I don't see the point in continuing to point out the facts to him.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I agree with you, but you can only lead a horse to water not make him drink, so I don't see the point in continuing to point out the facts to him.

Definitely and in defense of some of these folks some of these details might be hard to follow. For example, if you're not aware of the nitty gritty of how elections are typically run it might not be obvious at first why Trump's call to Raffensperger was so deeply inappropriate.

That said, it does feel like the very idea that Trump was trying to stay in power is dismissed by those who are sympathetic to him on some level to include some of these fence sitters and "centrists"

The fence sitting acts to validate Trump because it gives the appearance that non-biased observers have reasonable disagreements when in reality the fence sitters have no reasonable objections to the accusations against Trump which is why they have to muse about the possibility of federal agents having provoked the riots or hiding behind the one "peacefully protest" line while ignoring the rest of the speech Trump gave that day.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Definitely and in defense of some of these folks some of these details might be hard to follow. For example, if you're not aware of the nitty gritty of how elections are typically run it might not be obvious at first why Trump's call to Raffensperger was so deeply inappropriate.

That said, it does feel like the very idea that Trump was trying to stay in power is dismissed by those who are sympathetic to him on some level to include some of these fence sitters and "centrists"

The fence sitting acts to validate Trump because it gives the appearance that non-biased observers have reasonable disagreements when in reality the fence sitters have no reasonable objections to the accusations against Trump which is why they have to muse about the possibility of federal agents having provoked the riots or hiding behind the one "peacefully protest" line while ignoring the rest of the speech Trump gave that day.

Even in this thread 3 CIs are supposed to make a difference. If you understand what a CI is then it's obvious why the rest were there, since they are people from these types of groups, but even this is then exaggerated as if there were so many CIs how can we be sure there weren't real agents and it's just being covered up. There are the radical Trump fans that knowingly lie on his behalf and there's no point in debating with them, for others I make an attempt to present the facts that contradict the propaganda, but at the end of the day you can't make up someone else's mind for them.

 

[Source]

If the charges were brought immediately you'd probably also being saying it was political.

Yup, the rioting was a bonus that Trump used to further pressure lawmakers but if Pence was on board there would be no need for the rioting.

Just because its a silly scheme that probably wouldn't have worked doesn't mean the scheme wasn't attempted.

Very little of this is speculation btw, there's mountains of evidence that Trump was trying to overturn the election. Here's a YT video of his fake electors trying to get into the Michigan Capitol and being denied by the police and here's a phone call Trump made to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger trying to get him to overturn the Georgia election results. All of this is part of the lead up to Jan 6th.

What exactly are you implying here? You're saying the "government" does shady things but find it unbelievable that Trump, the head of the government at the time btw, was trying to do the thing he said for months he was trying to do?

What makes you say that? You don't think there's maybe some special consideration when charging a former president? If anything Merrick Garland seems to have delayed the investigation in part to avoid the appearance of it being political and yet in the end it didn't matter, folks like you were going to see it as political either way. At the end of the day Trump is your guy so there's probably no amount of evidence I could present to you that would make you even consider the possibility that Trump was attempting a coup despite the fact that he admits he was trying to overturn the election and prevent the peaceful transfer of power for months beforehand.

But it wouldn’t have worked so it doesn’t matter has to be one of the dumbest defenses of the entire plot. This has to be an argument from either a place of pure ignorance or worse passive complicity. The fact that it was attempted in the first place is the problem. Whether if would have worked or not is irrelevant. I could not in good conscience fathom voting for someone who attempted to pull off such an act. The fact that it could have worked is extremely troubling to me. It’s only a matter of time until it’s attempted again.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

But it wouldn’t have worked so it doesn’t matter has to be one of the dumbest defenses of the entire plot. This has to be an argument from either a place of pure ignorance or worse passive complicity. The fact that it was attempted in the first place is the problem. Whether if would have worked or not is irrelevant. I could not in good conscience fathom voting for someone who attempted to pull off such an act. The fact that it could have worked is extremely troubling to me. It’s only a matter of time until it’s attempted again.

Yep, '28, mark it on your calendar.

 

[Cajun]

If the charges were brought immediately you'd probably also being saying it was political.

Yup, the rioting was a bonus that Trump used to further pressure lawmakers but if Pence was on board there would be no need for the rioting.

Just because its a silly scheme that probably wouldn't have worked doesn't mean the scheme wasn't attempted.

Very little of this is speculation btw, there's mountains of evidence that Trump was trying to overturn the election. Here's a YT video of his fake electors trying to get into the Michigan Capitol and being denied by the police and here's a phone call Trump made to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger trying to get him to overturn the Georgia election results. All of this is part of the lead up to Jan 6th.

What exactly are you implying here? You're saying the "government" does shady things but find it unbelievable that Trump, the head of the government at the time btw, was trying to do the thing he said for months he was trying to do?

What makes you say that? You don't think there's maybe some special consideration when charging a former president? If anything Merrick Garland seems to have delayed the investigation in part to avoid the appearance of it being political and yet in the end it didn't matter, folks like you were going to see it as political either way. At the end of the day Trump is your guy so there's probably no amount of evidence I could present to you that would make you even consider the possibility that Trump was attempting a coup despite the fact that he admits he was trying to overturn the election and prevent the peaceful transfer of power for months beforehand.

I haven't voted for Trump in any primary. But looking at it the silliness of the concept its unfathomable. Noone would think this would be viable in any form. Even if there was a delay for a recount the whole think would be overseen by congress. I didn't like all the mail in ballots that have to be hand counted as anything could happen but there was no evidence it was tainted. Im very happy there won't be another covid type election anytime soon. Cheers man.

 

[Cajun]

But it wouldn’t have worked so it doesn’t matter has to be one of the dumbest defenses of the entire plot. This has to be an argument from either a place of pure ignorance or worse passive complicity. The fact that it was attempted in the first place is the problem. Whether if would have worked or not is irrelevant. I could not in good conscience fathom voting for someone who attempted to pull off such an act. The fact that it could have worked is extremely troubling to me. It’s only a matter of time until it’s attempted again.

Not that it doesn't matter it just doesn't make logical sense. Ultimately the entire govt was turned over signifying that most of this country agreed and voted in not only Trump but the house and senate to the party that he was in.

 

[kflo]

Not that it doesn't matter it just doesn't make logical sense. Ultimately the entire govt was turned over signifying that most of this country agreed and voted in not only Trump but the house and senate to the party that he was in.

what doesn't make sense though? are you arguing trump didn't want / pressure pence to not certify the election results?

 

[Cajun]

what doesn't make sense though? are you arguing trump didn't want / pressure pence to not certify the election results?

I do think Trump thought he was cheated and didn't want mike to certify. But the guys storming the capital could accomplish nothing and a relative few taking on the govt would never be anyone's plan with an IQ over 80.

 

[Source]

Not that it doesn't matter it just doesn't make logical sense. Ultimately the entire govt was turned over signifying that most of this country agreed and voted in not only Trump but the house and senate to the party that he was in.

What about the plot to overturn the election that doesn’t make sense to you? Trump needed more time and delaying the certification was part of that plan. This isn’t hard for anyone that isn’t stuck up trump’s ass to comprehend. The majority voting for a traitor doesn’t change that. Deny, deflect, repeat.

 

[Cajun]

What about the plot to overturn the election that doesn’t make sense to you? Trump needed more time and delaying the certification was part of that plan. This isn’t hard for anyone that isn’t stuck up trump’s ass to comprehend. The majority voting for a traitor doesn’t change that. Deny, deflect, repeat.

Ok bud...cheers.

 

[kflo]

I do think Trump thought he was cheated and didn't want mike to certify. But the guys storming the capital could accomplish nothing and a relative few taking on the govt would never be anyone's plan with an IQ over 80.

they wanted to influence (scare) pence to not certify, as trump wanted. it wasn't taking on the government, it was attempting to effectuate trump's plan through pence.

 

[Source]

they wanted to influence (scare) pence to not certify, as trump wanted. it wasn't taking on the government, it was attempting to effectuate trump's plan through pence.

Once Trump realized that Pence would certify the election he needed a way to stop it all together or at the very least delay it.

 

[Cajun]

they wanted to influence (scare) pence to not certify, as trump wanted. it wasn't taking on the government, it was attempting to effectuate trump's plan through pence.

That wouldn't scare anyone though. A relative few when congress can call in military, swat etc... maybe if they had their hands on him as a hostage but... no real threat.

 

[koquerelle]

For example, if you're not aware of the nitty gritty of how elections are typically run it might not be obvious at first why Trump's call to Raffensperger was so deeply inappropriate.

I disagree with this. The President put pressure on an official to find him votes. The unhinged call lasted for more than an hour. You don't need to be aware of the nitty gritty of how elections are typically run to realize it was highly inappropriate and unethical.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Not that it doesn't matter it just doesn't make logical sense. Ultimately the entire govt was turned over signifying that most of this country agreed and voted in not only Trump but the house and senate to the party that he was in.

Because the Haitians are eating our cats!

 

[Cajun]

Because the Haitians are eating our cats!

He was just trying to shake @lsa

 

[Cajun]

What the? Why can't I tag @isa

Edit... nvm.. I have called him Isa since I've seen him first post.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I do think Trump thought he was cheated and didn't want mike to certify. But the guys storming the capital could accomplish nothing and a relative few taking on the govt would never be anyone's plan with an IQ over 80.

150ish Congressmen voted to overturn the election. Something like 7 States sent in Fake Electors. A SCOTUS Justice's wife lobbied them to do it. If it went to Delegates they had enough to overturn the Election. If it went to the SCOTUS he nominated 3 of them and at least 2 others are far right.

You make it seem like a guy behind on the cards should just pack it in the last round because there's no chance he can score a KO. And, once again, even if it's a guy flailing away wildly that never had a chance, he was still in there throwing punches. I'm just crossing my fingers hoping we don't end up in a situation like Venezuela with Chavez. He's another guy that promised the rubes the world while he consolidated his power.