Elections 2016 Presidential Election General Discussion v2

[liljoe]

I'm not sure how any layperson can have a really strong opinion on the tpp.
I haven't noticed either ringing endorsements or scathing criticisms from qualified economist types. Just a lot of ambiguity (which in itself might be enough reason to oppose the bill, but not so severely).
What am I missing?

Oooh, TPP,TPP.!! It's so scary and foreboding! Exactly, the average goofball has no clue what it is. It might or might not be a good trade deal, but some have latched on to it and use it as a buzzword to scare ignorant voters.
You can add it to the scare list of words like Sharia Law!, Common Core! and Amnesty that Breitbart/Infowars use to stir people up.

 

[Hans Gruber]

How the Clinton Foundation Got Rich off Poor Haitians


http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...cratic-party-dinesh-dsouza-clinton-foundation

In January 2015 a group of Haitians surrounded the New York offices of the Clinton Foundation. They chanted slogans, accusing Bill and Hillary Clinton of having robbed them of “billions of dollars.” Two months later, the Haitians were at it again, accusing the Clintons of duplicity, malfeasance, and theft. And in May 2015, they were back, this time outside New York’s Cipriani, where Bill Clinton received an award and collected a $500,000 check for his foundation. “Clinton, where’s the money?” the Haitian signs read. “In whose pockets?” Said Dhoud Andre of the Commission Against Dictatorship, “We are telling the world of the crimes that Bill and Hillary Clinton are responsible for in Haiti.”


The Red Cross and the Salvation Army, provided some $10.5 billion in aid. Haitians noticed that very little of this aid money actually got to poor people in Haiti.

Some projects championed by the Clintons, such as the building of industrial parks and posh hotels, cost a great deal of money and offered scarce benefits to the truly needy. Port-au-Prince was supposed to be rebuilt; it was never rebuilt. Projects aimed at creating jobs proved to be bitter disappointments. Haitian unemployment remained high, largely undented by the funds that were supposed to pour into the country.

In sum, Haitian deals appeared to be a quid pro quo for filling the coffers of the Clintons. For example, the Clinton Foundation selected Clayton Homes, a construction company owned by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, to build temporary shelters in Haiti. Buffett is an active member of the Clinton Global Initiative who has donated generously to the Clintons as well as the Clinton Foundation. The contract was supposed to be given through the normal United Nations bidding process, with the deal going to the lowest bidder who met the project’s standards. UN officials said, however, that the contract was never competitively bid for.

Several Clinton cronies showed up with Bill to a 2011 Housing Expo that cost more than $2 million to stage. Bill Clinton said it would be a model for the construction of thousands of homes in Haiti. In reality, no homes have been built.

The article is long and spells out the corruption in detail

 

[Gervinho]

Trump now support Obamas immigration policy on illegal immigration. By election he will be on the left of her on immigration

 

[Diamond Jim]

Funny thing I heard today was Trump campaign has spent $55k in purchasing The Art of the Deal book. Which if Trump received royalties would be illegal. Overall Trump's campaign has spent nearly $7 million to his kids and Trump businesses.

 

[Sycho Sid]

Funny thing I heard today was Trump campaign has spent $55k in purchasing The Art of the Deal book. Which if Trump received royalties would be illegal. Overall Trump's campaign has spent nearly $7 million to his kids and Trump businesses.

Well Trump's big success touting is he can make money even when his ventures fail.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It's not.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...s-favor-tpp-but-less-than-other-countries-do/

It is, and anyone with a brain knows it. There is a reason why every major candidate running for office has come out against TPP, except for Ted Cruz, and it certainly isn't political courage.

___________________________________________________________________________

U.S. Polling Shows Strong Opposition to More of the Same U.S. Trade Deals from Independents, Republicans and Democrats Alike

Recent polling reveals broad U.S. public opposition to more of the same trade deals among independents, Republicans and Democrats. Though Americans tend to support trade, they oppose an expansion of status quo trade policies, complicating the push for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).
A June 2015 New York Times / CBS News poll revealed that 63 percent of the U.S. public believes that “trade restrictions are necessary to protect domestic industries” while only 30 percent think “free trade must be allowed, even if domestic industries are hurt by foreign competition.” Democrats, Republicans and independents all overwhelmingly supported protection of domestic businesses over “free trade” at any cost.1

https://www.citizen.org/documents/polling-memo.pdf

 

[m52nickerson]

It is, and anyone with a brain knows it. There is a reason why every major candidate running for office has come out against TPP, except for Ted Cruz, and it certainly isn't political courage.

___________________________________________________________________________

U.S. Polling Shows Strong Opposition to More of the Same U.S. Trade Deals from Independents, Republicans and Democrats Alike

Recent polling reveals broad U.S. public opposition to more of the same trade deals among independents, Republicans and Democrats. Though Americans tend to support trade, they oppose an expansion of status quo trade policies, complicating the push for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).
A June 2015 New York Times / CBS News poll revealed that 63 percent of the U.S. public believes that “trade restrictions are necessary to protect domestic industries” while only 30 percent think “free trade must be allowed, even if domestic industries are hurt by foreign competition.” Democrats, Republicans and independents all overwhelmingly supported protection of domestic businesses over “free trade” at any cost.1

https://www.citizen.org/documents/polling-memo.pdf

Nice paper by a site that is unabashed against the TPP. From the first citation they picked the one question whose answered look like it supported their side and ignored the same polls found more people supported NAFTA then opposed, and far more did not know. As far as a question on TPP, the vase majority said they did not know, or that it would not affect jobs. The second citation is an online poll...let me laugh harder now.

Nice try kid.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Trump now support Obamas immigration policy on illegal immigration. By election he will be on the left of her on immigration

He flipflops so bad by the time November gets here Chump will be a Democrat again.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Nice paper by a site that is unabashed against the TPP. From the first citation they picked the one question whose answered look like it supported their side and ignored the same polls found more people supported NAFTA then opposed, and far more did not know. As far as a question on TPP, the vase majority said they did not know, or that it would not affect jobs. The second citation is an online poll...let me laugh harder now.

Nice try kid.

You should take the Tin foil off guy.

Are the Reptilians out to get you at this polling site?

If this poll is suspect, then so is yours.

Here this is from the same source but from Ipsos chump.

______________________________________________________________________

The same May 2015 Ipsos poll found that 73 percent of the U.S. public believes that Congress should oppose any “international trade agreement that does not specifically prohibit currency manipulation.”6 That would presumably include the TPP, as the Obama administration has repeatedly dismissed Congress’ bipartisan, bicameral demand for the TPP to include binding disciplines against currency manipulation.7 The poll revealed that 88 percent of the U.S. public considers it important “that any international trade agreements negotiated by the United States have specific rules preventing currency manipulation.”

 

[ncordless]

You should take the Tin foil off guy.

Are the Reptilians out to get you at this polling site?

If this poll is suspect, then so is yours.

Here this is from the same source but from Ipsos chump.

______________________________________________________________________

The same May 2015 Ipsos poll found that 73 percent of the U.S. public believes that Congress should oppose any “international trade agreement that does not specifically prohibit currency manipulation.”6 That would presumably include the TPP, as the Obama administration has repeatedly dismissed Congress’ bipartisan, bicameral demand for the TPP to include binding disciplines against currency manipulation.7 The poll revealed that 88 percent of the U.S. public considers it important “that any international trade agreements negotiated by the United States have specific rules preventing currency manipulation.”

Which of the 12 parties to the TPP are we concerned about manipulating their currency? Seems like ignorance of the voter as opposed to a stance about an actual issue. Seems like a red herring of a question to ask. I bet I could get a lot of people to say we should oppose any international trade agreement that does not specifically prohibit genocide as well. But why would I put that in a trade agreement with countries that don't commit genocide?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Which of the 12 parties to the TPP are we concerned about manipulating their currency? Seems like ignorance of the voter as opposed to a stance about an actual issue. Seems like a red herring of a question to ask. I bet I could get a lot of people to say we should oppose any international trade agreement that does not specifically prohibit genocide as well. But why would I put that in a trade agreement with countries that don't commit genocide?

So then the purpose isn't to bend China to our rules with this trade deal as Obama has been arguing?

BTW, the whole world is engaging in currency wars, from Brazil to China to Indonesia.

 

[m52nickerson]

You should take the Tin foil off guy.

Are the Reptilians out to get you at this polling site?

If this poll is suspect, then so is yours.

Here this is from the same source but from Ipsos chump.

______________________________________________________________________

The same May 2015 Ipsos poll found that 73 percent of the U.S. public believes that Congress should oppose any “international trade agreement that does not specifically prohibit currency manipulation.”6 That would presumably include the TPP, as the Obama administration has repeatedly dismissed Congress’ bipartisan, bicameral demand for the TPP to include binding disciplines against currency manipulation.7 The poll revealed that 88 percent of the U.S. public considers it important “that any international trade agreements negotiated by the United States have specific rules preventing currency manipulation.”

So you don't try and refute what I pointed out and double down by pointing out a poll question regarding one aspect of the TPP. Classic.

 

[VivaRevolution]

So you don't try and refute what I pointed out and double down by pointing out a poll question regarding one aspect of the TPP. Classic.

No of course I don't. I'm not going to fight you from a defensive position, where you set the grounds.

I'm not stupid, I get the game.

You offered zero evidence for your claim, why would I bother to refute it?

See how I have now set the grounds, and you are in a defensive position? I'm good at this yeah?

 

[m52nickerson]

No of course I don't. I'm not going to fight you from a defensive position, where you set the grounds.

I'm not stupid, I get the game.

You offered zero evidence for your claim, why would I bother to refute it?

See how I have now set the grounds, and you are in a defensive position? I'm good at this yeah?

Literally the PDF you posted has citation. You do know what citations are, right? Those are what I was talking about.

Oh, by the way you are on the defensive because we are talking about your evidence. You have yet to refute or even address the poll I posted.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Literally the PDF you posted has citation. You do know what citations are, right? Those are what I was talking about.

Oh, by the way you are on the defensive because we are talking about your evidence. You have yet to refute or even address the poll I posted.

You are correct, I didn't refute the poll you posted, because the poll you posted asked a simplistic question.

Where as the poll I cited asked far more specific questions, you know like instead of asking do you support the abstract idea of trade, asking a far more germane question, like do you support trade as it exists today.

See, then you play this silly little disinformation game, where you question the validity of my source, with absolutely zero evidence to support your claim.

Of course I am talking to a guy that thinks the news reports GDP as a hard number, and not a %, so what more could I expect from you......

 

[Handsomebwonderfull]

Is the Hillary hate just ironically done or just well paid for

 

[Fawlty]

He flipflops so bad by the time November gets here Chump will be a Democrat again.

Chump could stick, it's not bad. I'm about to start calling his supporters The Turd Reich.

 

[m52nickerson]

You are correct, I didn't refute the poll you posted, because the poll you posted asked a simplistic question.

Where as the poll I cited asked far more specific questions, you know like instead of asking do you support the abstract idea of trade, asking a far more germane question, like do you support trade as it exists today.

See, then you play this silly little disinformation game, where you question the validity of my source, with absolutely zero evidence to support your claim.

Of course I am talking to a guy that thinks the news reports GDP as a hard number, and not a %, so what more could I expect from you......

It asked about the TPP and support for it and it showed you were wrong regarding that very question. While you posted a paper that cherry picked, which the evidence is in the citations, single specific questions of larger polls. Yup, simply question, direct poll is disinformation and yet a paper from a anti-TPP site cherry picking polls is not.

You are really bad at this.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Is the Hillary hate just ironically done or just well paid for

Herpetophobia imo

 

[VivaRevolution]

It asked about the TPP and support for it and it showed you were wrong regarding that very question. While you posted a paper that cherry picked, which the evidence is in the citations, single specific questions of larger polls. Yup, simply question, direct poll is disinformation and yet a paper from a anti-TPP site cherry picking polls is not.

You are really bad at this.

Write me another paragraph chump.

My poll asks do you support trade as it exists today.

Your poll, asks do you support trade.

Spin all you want, but my poll > your poll, and I mean that in every way possible.