Economy 12 Years and $34 Billion Later, Canada plans to sell the finally-completed TMX Oil Pipeline to indigenous groups.

[3825 968]

Alberta has been treated like the red headed step child for far too long. Everyone loves Albertas dirty oil money but nobody wants to help getting the product to the open market.

America, please adopt us asap

I dont want to be american. But i do want that dirty oil to start flowin to port. 30% vacancy dt calgary makes for an easy commute. Its the only good side.

 

[DSOTM]

I dont want to be american. But i do want that dirty oil to start flowin to port. 30% vacancy dt calgary makes for an easy commute. Its the only good side.

i would vote yes in heartbeat to get the hell out of this fucked up country. This country is so divided it's disgusting.

Can't wait for another new tax to pay for the pipeline that Notley says Alberta will fund.

 

[3825 968]

Yep. Its out of hand. Pierre poillievre had a good speech about it today. Tied it up nicely at the end.

 

[DSOTM]

Yep. Its out of hand. Pierre poillievre had a good speech about it today. Tied it up nicely at the end.

It’s about to get uglier. Looks like Saskatchewan is following Alberta

https://globalnews.ca/news/4148460/...ion-is-coming-to-block-energy-exports-to-b-c/

 

[Arkain2K]

It's B.C & Quebec vs. Alberta & Sakatchewan now, and Trudeau left for Paris while things are quickly spiralling out of control.

----

As Trudeau finally acts on pipeline, Quebec enters the fray
Don Braid, Calgary Herald | April 15, 2018

Premier Rachel Notley sits with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and B.C. Premier John Horgan for a meeting on the deadlock over the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion on Sunday in Ottawa​

Part prime minister, part faith healer, Justin Trudeau tried to pull the country back together Sunday under the flag of Kinder Morgan.

It came amid signs that any national consensus is further fracturing.

The Quebec government — Liberals, no less — are now siding with B.C.’s adamant opposition to the Trans Mountain pipeline to the west coast.

Ottawa’s assertion of dominance on Kinder Morgan “is not a good sign for federalism,” said Premier Philippe Couillard.

“The recent assertions of federal representatives regarding the Trans Mountain pipeline, which refer to an exclusive application of federal rules, are detrimental to a proper resolution of this issue and raise concerns for the future,” wrote Jean-Marc Fournier, the Quebec minister responsible for Canadian Relations.

A sign protests the Energy East pipeline in Donnacona, east of Montreal on Sept. 29, 2015. The sign reads “Don’t spill in our home”.​

Many Albertans will find Quebec’s attitude infuriating. Quebec opposition was a major factor in the death of the Energy East pipeline. The resistance began under the leadership of a former federal Liberal minister, Denis Coderre, when he was mayor of Montreal and nobody even knew details of the project.

Now the Quebec government wants to block Alberta’s last chance at tidewater access — at a port 3600 kilometres from Montreal.

This from a province that accepts regular tanker shipments on the St. Lawrence River from a host of overseas countries, many with no environmental rules at all.

Quebec not only meddles in Kinder Morgan, but insists the provinces should be full partners in the administration of Bill C-69, the federal legislation that has already plunged the energy industry into new spasms of confusion.

Trudeau could face no more serious challenge than a Liberal uprising in Quebec. The solution — for now, but maybe not forever — is to get Kinder Morgan quickly built and forgotten.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...tarts-to-act-b-c-wins-a-powerful-new-ally/amp

 

[JSN]

BC should just give Alberta the danger pipeline. It’s all it has going for it!

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[DSOTM]

Fuck Quebec as well....but we all already knew that.

 

[Arkain2K]

B.C. threatens to sue Alberta as all sides in Trans Mountain dispute dig in
Alberta legislation that could hike gas prices may be unconstitutional, B.C. attorney general says
CBC News · Posted: Apr 16, 2018​

BC Attorney General David Eby says it's unconstitutional for one province to use energy policy to punish another province.​

British Columbia's attorney general is threatening to sue if a new law introduced in Alberta causes gasoline prices in B.C. to skyrocket.

David Eby says it's unconstitutional for one province to use energy policy to punish another province, and B.C. is prepared to take legal action against Alberta.

"If there is anything in this legislation that even suggests the possibility of discrimination against British Columbians we will take every step necessary to protect the interests of British Columbians," Eby said.

The Alberta government introduced legislation that would allow for the restriction of oil, gasoline and natural gas leaving that province, which could cause fuel prices in B.C. to jump.

British Columbia's attorney general is threatening to sue if a new law introduced in Alberta causes gasoline prices in B.C. to skyrocket.

David Eby says it's unconstitutional for one province to use energy policy to punish another province, and B.C. is prepared to take legal action against Alberta.

"If there is anything in this legislation that even suggests the possibility of discrimination against British Columbians we will take every step necessary to protect the interests of British Columbians," Eby said.

The Alberta government introduced legislation that would allow for the restriction of oil, gasoline and natural gas leaving that province, which could cause fuel prices in B.C. to jump.

The legislation does not mention B.C., but Alberta Premier Rachel Notley says it could be used to put pressure on the province if the B.C. government doesn't change its stance on the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

If Alberta was to restrict fuel exports to B.C., the impact would soon be felt, said Mark Jaccard, a professor in the School of Resource and Environmental Management at Simon Fraser university.

"It's true that most of the gasoline that we're getting in our cars in southwestern British Columbia is coming from Alberta one way or another," he said.

Any interruption in the fuel supply from Alberta could send already high gas prices in B.C. above $2 per litre, said Dan McTeague, a senior petroleum analyst with Gasbuddy.com.

"Over a period of time the price would rise by leaps and bounds of 10 cents a litre, depending of course on the severity of the cutback," he said.

The B.C. government will now take time to review the legislation before deciding on a course of action, Eby said.

B.C. Premier John Horgan, Alberta Premier Rachel Notley and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau met Sunday in Ottawa, with Trudeau saying the federal government is preparing to hold private, financial talks with Kinder Morgan to ensure the pipeline's completion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/alberta-legislation-gas-prices-1.4622482

 

[MikeMcMann]

isn't this exactly what BC is doing to Alberta? And why should AB care about legal action when BC ignores every legal action?

...David Eby says it's unconstitutional for one province to use energy policy to punish another province, and B.C. is prepared to take legal action against Alberta.

B.C. threatens to sue Alberta as all sides in Trans Mountain dispute dig in
Alberta legislation that could hike gas prices may be unconstitutional, B.C. attorney general says
CBC News · Posted: Apr 16, 2018​

BC Attorney General David Eby says it's unconstitutional for one province to use energy policy to punish another province.​

British Columbia's attorney general is threatening to sue if a new law introduced in Alberta causes gasoline prices in B.C. to skyrocket.

David Eby says it's unconstitutional for one province to use energy policy to punish another province, and B.C. is prepared to take legal action against Alberta.

"If there is anything in this legislation that even suggests the possibility of discrimination against British Columbians we will take every step necessary to protect the interests of British Columbians," Eby said.

The Alberta government introduced legislation that would allow for the restriction of oil, gasoline and natural gas leaving that province, which could cause fuel prices in B.C. to jump.

British Columbia's attorney general is threatening to sue if a new law introduced in Alberta causes gasoline prices in B.C. to skyrocket.

David Eby says it's unconstitutional for one province to use energy policy to punish another province, and B.C. is prepared to take legal action against Alberta.

"If there is anything in this legislation that even suggests the possibility of discrimination against British Columbians we will take every step necessary to protect the interests of British Columbians," Eby said.

The Alberta government introduced legislation that would allow for the restriction of oil, gasoline and natural gas leaving that province, which could cause fuel prices in B.C. to jump.

The legislation does not mention B.C., but Alberta Premier Rachel Notley says it could be used to put pressure on the province if the B.C. government doesn't change its stance on the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

If Alberta was to restrict fuel exports to B.C., the impact would soon be felt, said Mark Jaccard, a professor in the School of Resource and Environmental Management at Simon Fraser university.

"It's true that most of the gasoline that we're getting in our cars in southwestern British Columbia is coming from Alberta one way or another," he said.

Any interruption in the fuel supply from Alberta could send already high gas prices in B.C. above $2 per litre, said Dan McTeague, a senior petroleum analyst with Gasbuddy.com.

"Over a period of time the price would rise by leaps and bounds of 10 cents a litre, depending of course on the severity of the cutback," he said.

The B.C. government will now take time to review the legislation before deciding on a course of action, Eby said.

B.C. Premier John Horgan, Alberta Premier Rachel Notley and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau met Sunday in Ottawa, with Trudeau saying the federal government is preparing to hold private, financial talks with Kinder Morgan to ensure the pipeline's completion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/alberta-legislation-gas-prices-1.4622482

 

[Devout Pessimist]

It's B.C & Quebec vs. Alberta & Sakatchewan now, and Trudeau left for Paris while things are quickly spiralling out of control.

----

As Trudeau finally acts on pipeline, Quebec enters the fray​

Part prime minister, part faith healer, Justin Trudeau tried to pull the country back together Sunday under the flag of Kinder Morgan.

It came amid signs that any national consensus is further fracturing.

The Quebec government — Liberals, no less — are now siding with B.C.’s adamant opposition to the Trans Mountain pipeline to the west coast.

Ottawa’s assertion of dominance on Kinder Morgan “is not a good sign for federalism,” said Premier Philippe Couillard.

“The recent assertions of federal representatives regarding the Trans Mountain pipeline, which refer to an exclusive application of federal rules, are detrimental to a proper resolution of this issue and raise concerns for the future,” wrote Jean-Marc Fournier, the Quebec minister responsible for Canadian Relations.

A sign protests the Energy East pipeline in Donnacona, east of Montreal on Sept. 29, 2015. The sign reads “Don’t spill in our home”.​

Many Albertans will find Quebec’s attitude infuriating. Quebec opposition was a major factor in the death of the Energy East pipeline. The resistance began under the leadership of a former federal Liberal minister, Denis Coderre, when he was mayor of Montreal and nobody even knew details of the project.

Now the Quebec government wants to block Alberta’s last chance at tidewater access — at a port 3600 kilometres from Montreal.

This from a province that accepts regular tanker shipments on the St. Lawrence River from a host of overseas countries, many with no environmental rules at all.

Quebec not only meddles in Kinder Morgan, but insists the provinces should be full partners in the administration of Bill C-69, the federal legislation that has already plunged the energy industry into new spasms of confusion.

Trudeau could face no more serious challenge than a Liberal uprising in Quebec. The solution — for now, but maybe not forever — is to get Kinder Morgan quickly built and forgotten.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...tarts-to-act-b-c-wins-a-powerful-new-ally/amp

I don't think Trudeau Jr. has been in Canada for longer than 2 weeks since idiots voted him in.

 

[salamander]

Not all the First Nations are on board with the project and have vowed to to stop it even if it means another Oka.

In fact, on the question of jurisdiction, legal experts say the biggest threat to the pipeline’s construction through B.C. comes not from Horgan’s NDP government, but from members of coastal and interior First Nations along the pipeline route who oppose it. They stand on unceded land and have signed no treaties with the Crown that could undermine their legal position. They can point to previous Supreme Court wins regarding First Nations title to land in B.C. And they are willing to erect barricades to stop construction of the pipeline through their territory.

Trudeau has no plans to meet with First Nations leaders when he flies back to Ottawa this weekend, the Prime Minister’s Office told VICE News on Friday.

According to Nicole Schabus, law professor and wife of the late Indigenous author and political leader Arthur Manuel, the biggest challenge to Trans Mountain is the fact that the company and the various levels of government have failed to take into account Indigenous jurisdiction and land rights.

That’s the conclusion she and a group of economists and lawyers, called the Indigenous Network on Economics and Trade, came to in their risk assessment of the pipeline, released Friday.

“Though much attention has been focused on inter-jurisdictional struggle between the federal and provincial governments over regulation and environmental assessment, the company and governments have both failed to dispense their legal duties of obtaining consent from the proper title holders of the land,” the group concluded.

While Kinder Morgan is putting pressure on the provincial government, Schabus questioned the company’s real motivations for suspending construction. “I think you only have to look at the fact that their ‘surprise announcement’ came on the weekend of yet another big Indigenous mobilization,” she told VICE News.

When considering who has jurisdiction over the pipeline route, the first thing to understand is that, unlike the rest of Canada, most First Nations in B.C. have never signed treaties with the Crown.

As British settlers moved from east to west, they sought treaties with Indigenous people so they could secure the land for trade and development. But when settlers reached the Rockies, that treaty process ground to a halt. Today, most B.C. First Nations have not signed treaties with the Crown, meaning they have not agreed that the Canadian and B.C. governments can use their land for economic purposes, including pipelines.

“This is the jurisdictional elephant in the room no one is talking about when they’re saying B.C., Alberta, Canada are in a constitutional crisis,” explains Eugene Kung, a lawyer for the Vancouver-based public interest group West Coast Environmental Law. “They’re missing the real constitutional issue, which is the underlying land title.”

According to Kung, any solution the federal government tries that is grounded solely in provincial or federal jurisdictional powers ignores First Nations.

In 2014, the Supreme Court of Canada unanimously ruled that the Tsilhqot’in First Nation in B.C. had Aboriginal title to its historic territory. Although the decision did not give absolute power to First Nations, it did set a high bar for governments to use Aboriginal title land for economic development. Either a government would need the First Nation’s consent, or it must show the need for development is urgent and substantial, and that it was upholding its fiduciary duty to the First Nation.

Kung says there is a possibility that anywhere along the pipeline route in B.C. there could be a legal action like Tsilhqot’in “that could at the very least create even more legal uncertainty.”

“Given what Kinder Morgan has said about their timing, I think that could be quite a limit on what both politically and legally they could do.”

SECWEPEMC OPPOSITION

There are other reasons First Nations hold the balance of power in this fight, according to experts.

The Secwepemc Nation is the largest First Nation in the province with traditional territory stretching from the Rockies down into the B.C. interior. Half of the proposed pipeline, or about 518 kilometers of it, would pass through Secwepemc territory. The Secwepemc Nation has never signed a treaty with the Crown, so having the nation’s permission is extremely important for the pipeline to proceed.

Kinder Morgan claims it has that permission because it negotiated and signed benefit agreements with First Nation band councils along the route, including several Secwepemc band councils. But there’s a catch. Band councils were implemented by the federal government under the Indian Act, and they are not the only form of First Nations governance. By signing an agreement with the company, Secwepemc community members say the band councils ran afoul of traditional Indigenous law that predated the Indian Act.

According to Indigenous oral history, Secwepemc people have lived on their traditional territory since the last ice age, and newly found archaeological evidence suggests a First Nations presence in B.C. dating back 14,000 years. Before the 1876 Indian Act, First Nations had their own laws and governance systems that are recognized in Canada’s constitution under section 35. Secwepemc law states that title to the land is held collectively. In reaction to benefit agreements signed by band councils allowing the pipeline to proceed, Secwepemc community members released a declaration denouncing the agreements as “cynical attempts to divide and conquer our people.”

“We hereby explicitly and irrevocably refuse its passage through our territory,” the Secwepemc community members wrote about Trans Mountain.

To make matters worse for Kinder Morgan, band councils only have a say over reserve land, which makes up only about 0.2 percent of Secwepemc territory, according to Secwepemc political leader Arthur Manuel. So, even if Kinder Morgan’s benefit agreements with the Secwepemc band councils survived legal scrutiny, they would only allow the pipeline through a tiny portion of the group’s traditional territory.

According to Kanahus Manuel, Arthur Manuel’s daughter and member of the Secwepemc Women’s Warrior Society, the benefit agreement with Kinder Morgan is null and void. The Warrior Society has pledged to stop any Trans Mountain development on Secwepemc territory.

Kanahus explains Aboriginal title runs under all Secwepemc territory and is “held collectively for every man, woman and child in the nation.” That’s about 17,000 people. Anyone who goes against the collective will of the people is considered treasonous under traditional law, she explained.

“This is no airy fairy modified-rights based approach, give the natives their berry picking and they’re happy,” Kanahus Manuel said. “No. It’s full, 100 percent control over every inch of our territory.

“They want to move a rock? We have an economic interest in that. They want to take a tree down? We have an economic interest,” she said.

As for Trudeau’s way forward, law professor Schabus says the prime minister has reached a fork in the road.

“He will be challenged to reconcile on the one hand what he’s saying about implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples when it comes to recognizing Indigenous free, prior and informed consent, and Indigenous peoples as decision-makers regarding access to their land and resources, and on the other hand, where he is proclaiming to be the unilateral decision maker here.”

https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article...ain-fight-isnt-with-bc-its-with-first-nations

It's now clear to me why Trudeau the Lesser made the highly unusual move to publically call out our justice system after Boushie verdict. He is that Balrog to the first Nation Gandalf.

 

[Prokofievian]

Oh, Quebec.

 

[ElKarlo]

Shipping by rail kills people.

This. Google rail road oil fires. It's nuts. Basically not building pipelines, you are causing more pollution and are killing people

 

[Ayin]

This. Google rail road oil fires. It's nuts. Basically not building pipelines, you are causing more pollution and are killing people

And the counter argument to this seems to be something along the lines of “we shouldn’t be finding more efficient ways to transport oil, as that will allow greater consumption, and instead should transition away from it as a resource.”

But of course when Alberta offers to help BC make a green transition by limiting availability, BC loses it’s mind.

I am Fromm Ontario, would certainly describe myself as Liberal, and Hope Alberta absolutely comes out of this on top.

 

[MikeMcMann]

This. Google rail road oil fires. It's nuts. Basically not building pipelines, you are causing more pollution and are killing people

It's never been out the environment for the environment activists. That is a complete BS. As the oil does not stop being extracted and getting to market without pipelines. It just goes by train and mass amounts of Transport trucks all of which pollute far more than a pipeline.

This is about the activists desire to reduce the Oil and Gas companies profits by making them ship it the more expensive way and they prioritize that over any environmental impact.

Because make no mistake, pipeline or not the oil will continue to be extracted and shipped and a pipeline is safer and has less environmental impact.

 

[no fat chicks]

On the note of BC hypocrisy...

https://www.desmog.ca/2017/04/17/b-...-permit-pipe-mine-waste-directly-quesnel-lake

"The B.C. Ministry of Environment has quietly granted the Mount Polley Mining Corporation permission to drain mining waste directly into Quesnel Lake, B.C.’s deepest fjord lake and a source of drinking water for residents of Likely, B.C., as part of a “long-term water management plan.”

its because its not full of loud yuppie votes. Nothern BC is largely ignored

 

[bufetadanacara]

Shitty beer lol

You know not of what you speak

25 years ago it was good but it is horrible now. Unless you are referring to craft beer. Canadian craft beer has come a long way.

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[IGotAHugePeckah]

This whole situation is a dog's fucking breakfast. Time for Trudeau to step up and show some leadership.