WWII Historian: McConnell, Trump put US on Weimar-like path toward "illiberal democracy," disaster

[ens189]

Imagine actually reading it.

Your derp is showing.

no u

 

[Andy Capp]

Yes but how can the ongoing process be compared to the Weimar republic.
The Weimar republic only lasted for 15 years. There were no on-going process that can be compared to the US 2018.
Because they were no system in place and institution in place that can be compared to the US. The Weimar republic was a made up thing no one really supported in the first place.
If Hitler would have risen in the Kaiserreich that would be something you could use for comparison. Because that would have been an establish political system.

Hitler was not a willing participant in the on going process or anything like that. He tried to overthrow the Weimar republic in a coup first.

Sigh. I feel like you are seeing about 2 words of my posts and filling in the rest with your imagination.
The response to this is simply my first two sentences in response to you.

To me, the article is not so much about the what, as it is the how and why. It focuses on the seemingly coordinated* combination of processes designed to permanently cement the Republican power structure into the American political system and it appears to be working.

It's the similarity in the tools being used (and their differences) that is being discussed. If you read it, you would see the article is as much about how they differ but why they're still effective in accomplishing their goal.

I'm only still bothering with this because I consider you to be an overall solid contributor to the community, but it's pissing me off that you're apparently arguing from a position of not even reading the posts you're responding to, let alone the article in the OP. So, please do that before we go any further.

 

[Fawlty]

Balanced where?

It simply ignores the liberal trend for the last couple decades, the authoritarian left leaning governments in South America, who all pretty much tried to hold onto power and shut out the otherside, while still preserving some false sense of democracy. In US case you still have a balance and will continue to do so, people were tired of 8 years of democrats, next election they will back and one judge in federal court will not skew balance to a tipping point.



Peace since 1945 in the US? lol

Americans wanted out of wars in middleast one of the reasons Trump won the election, nobody wants to die overseas for some rich guy to make a buck on armselling. Unfortunately that has not been true so far, but at least no new fronts have been started under Trump, looking for better trade deals also have nothing to do with being against international trade he is right in protecting US interests.

That article is some one sided biased revisionist bullshit which attempts to link certain events of the Trump administration to Weimar, as if enforcing borders against illegals or securing better trade deals had any parallels lol

Whats next comparing Hitler speeches to Trump twitter use? Where people can freely bash him all day long? Where a comedian can pretend to cut the head of its president and nothing happens?

Its laughable the lack of real understanding behind words such as facism and nazism.

He's comparing and contrasting one period with another, and your expectation that he delve into the intervening years to speak to your particular issues is absurd. Grow up.

You may have a bone to pick with calling "peace" since 1945 but intelligent people understand that comment to be relative, the first half vs the last half of the century is a huge difference in prosperity/peace/stability.

You also go off on a bunch of unrelated stuff, probably because you're mentally ill. I'm not interested in your list of grievances.

 

[DespicablePeep]

He's comparing and contrasting one period with another, and your expectation that he delve into the intervening years to speak to your particular issues is absurd. Grow up.

You may have a bone to pick with calling "peace" since 1945 but intelligent people understand that comment to be relative, the first half vs the last half of the century is a huge difference in prosperity/peace/stability.

You also go off on a bunch of unrelated stuff, probably because you're mentally ill. I'm not interested in your list of grievances.

The whole article is ridiculous but if you think it portrays a link between Weimar prior to Hitler and US I think I´m not the one with mental issues.

Most of the reasons for Hitler are down to how Germany was treated in the Versailles Treaty, having to pay for all the damage when they were not the only ones at fault, it was a war over land between France/Germany over Alsace and Russia/Austria over Balkans. There were no right or wrong sides here, they all went to war for their reasons.

US is the only super power left, one booming economy, free speech is one of the pillar stones of american society, people are free to have arms and the current govt supports that.

There is nothing to correlate with Germany post WWI.

That article is a piece of defeat from a liberal mind that cannot accept people are not happy with liberal ideas and are pushing back to conservative.

 

[AlexDB9]

The whole article is ridiculous but if you think it portrays a link between Weimar prior to Hitler and US I think I´m not the one with mental issues.

For the record most of the reasons for Hitler are down to how Germany was treated in the Versailles Treaty, having to pay for all the damage when they were not the only ones at fault, it was a war over land between France/Germany over Alsace and Russia/Austria over Balkans.

US is the only super power left, one booming economy, free speech is one of the pilar stones of american society, people are free to have arms and the current gvt supports that.

There is nothing to correlate with Germany post WWI.

That article is a piece of defeat from a liberal mind that cannot accept people are not happy with liberal ideas and are pushing back to conservative.

That’s how it works. You give them evidence of the absurdity of this “article” and they call you mentally unstable. You’re better off just letting the thread devolve into a 4 page circle jerk and move on

 

[snakedafunky]

Sigh. I feel like you are seeing about 2 words of my posts and filling in the rest with your imagination.
The response to this is simply my first two sentences in response to you.
It's the similarity in the tools being used (and their differences) that is being discussed. If you read it, you would see the article is as much about how they differ but why they're still effective in accomplishing their goal.

I'm only still bothering with this because I consider you to be an overall solid contributor to the community, but it's pissing me off that you're apparently arguing from a position of not even reading the posts you're responding to, let alone the article in the OP. So, please do that before we go any further.

I have read that whole thing. Before I first commentated. Just because I don't share your view on the article doesn't mean I haven't read it.
And I still don't think the tools being used are similar to the one used from the NSDAP.
How on earth can someone make a connection between Hindenburg and Mc Connell?
That is simply false. The author IMO is wrong about his analysis.
Its a very American view on German politics. For example we do not separate our politics into conservatives and liberals.
When the author talks about traditional conservatism in the Weimar republic. He is wrong there was no such thing as traditional conservatism in the Weimar republic.
That is an American concept of looking at politics. But does not accurate describe Hindenburg's positions.

And my general issue with the article is that if you use the title McConnel/Trump put us on Weimar like path towards disaster.
You have to back that title up by making a connection between the two time periods and systems.
Otherwise he is just using that as a "Click bait style" title. If you use a title like that you have to bring forward some arguments that justify comparing the US 2018 to the Weimar repuplic.
And that is IMO something that will not be possible. Because they are to different.

 

[Darth_Inv1ctu5]

Well, to be fair, more than inteligence, the issue is more about cognitive biases than anything else

With some people yes, but there area few actual idiots here, people whose density approaches that of a black hole

 

[Andy Capp]

I have read that whole thing. Before I first commentated. Just because I don't share your view on the article doesn't mean I haven't read it.

I believe you, but your reference to Nazis and to blaming Trump suggested otherwise, along with ignoring how the author also went into detail about major differences. Disagreement is fine but that's not what that was. The rest of this post is far more up to your usual standard and as such it is harder to find cause to disagree. I'll leave that homework to @Trotsky

And I still don't think the tools being used are similar to the one used from the NSDAP.
How on earth can someone make a connection between Hindenburg and Mc Connell?
That is simply false. The author IMO is wrong about his analysis.
Its a very American view on German politics. For example we do not separate our politics into conservatives and liberals.
When the author talks about traditional conservatism in the Weimar republic. He is wrong there was no such thing as traditional conservatism in the Weimar republic.
That is an American concept of looking at politics. But does not accurate describe Hindenburg's positions.

And my general issue with the article is that if you use the title McConnel/Trump put us on Weimar like path towards disaster.
You have to back that title up by making a connection between the two time periods and systems.
Otherwise he is just using that as a "Click bait style" title. If you use a title like that you have to bring forward some arguments that justify comparing the US 2018 to the Weimar repuplic.
And that is IMO something that will not be possible. Because they are to different.

I think the title is a more or less accurate representation of the article thesis, but I still agree it has an air of clickbait to it.

 

[Limbo Pete]

@Limbo Pete

 

[bobgeese]

Cliffs for those who don't want to read all that shit:
The sky is falling!
Trump said "schlong"!
It's the rise of nazism in the United States!!!

I stopped reading at “Muh russia”.



Seriously.

 

[Renard]

Long-winded way to write "Trump is literally Hitler" fam, do better.

 

[HomerThompson]

Disagree, Trump is a symptom not the cause . Our Republic has had some trouble since the late 90s imho. These are systematic problems. Weimer Germany was beyond a basket case. Govts changed constantly and there was no stability. This is just stretching to throw something at Trump's feet.
He's a problem but he's not the cause

Thanks for proving you didn't read the OP.

 

[HomerThompson]

lol that you poor libs have been manipulated so badly that you believe the Trump presidency is the apocalypse. Its 4 (8 max) years of politics as usual. Stop being such hens.

Another one who didn't read the OP. Shocking.

 

[tinker_190]

OP I am about halfway through and this seems to draw analogies/comparisons that are too loose to take seriously, not to mention seemingly illogical with the way it argues.

The premise is that the USA is going to befall the same fate as the Weimar republic, but the very first paragraph draws a parallel between the USA now and in the 1920s. It completely ignores our history as a republic and the evolution of the two party system (notably absent from Weimar), and only briefly touches on the emergency powers in Weimar.

I think there is great potential in comparing and contrasting current and past historical events but the overly alarmist/fatalistic tone here is offputting

 

[tinker_190]

I stopped reading at “Muh russia”.



Seriously.

Also this. This seemed shoehorned in

 

[Seano]

Another one who didn't read the OP. Shocking.

Don't cry now.

 

[HomerThompson]

Don't cry now.

Just pointing out some more of your patented idiocy.

 

[Seano]

Just pointing out some more of your patented idiocy.

Who said I was commenting on the OP?

 

[My Spot]

Well, that was certainly an...interesting read.

 

[Seaside]

For all the vilifying of Trump, he's a just hapless dolt who is too stupid not to slouch into his inevitable role in history.

McConnell, on the other hand, is a legitimately evil piece of shit who has used his entire career to enrich himself, degrade democracy, and give power to corruption.

serious question. Do you actually think Trump could become like that in the sinclair book and round up opposition. Do you actually think he has enough support? Typically fascists at least have 1/3 of population support or so and it grows. But you need a base of diehards to start. I just feel America insitutions to powerful to allow that. Would your military really lay down? then again in such a scenario the military elites would need to be taken apart or the best of them jailed or made into an alliance.