"Women can't strike" and "heavyweights aren't skilled" MYTHS

[spetanink]

Your speculation is uninformed lol, has nothing to do with "being built to strike in a different way", you either throw real punches or you swing wild haymakers

Cain is a very skilled wrestler, but a woefully mono-dimensional fighter beyond that, he would get KO'd fast by the monsters in Glory and probably not win more than a match in the ADCC, yet nobody at HW is even good enough to beat that one dimension (JDS could if he had great footwork though).

/shrug

That is a bogus dichotomy. It is not either you throw real or throw wild haymakers, there is tons of middle ground. Also, Cain is by no means one-dimensional.

I never get how people think they can make these assumptions that he would get KO'd fast. We have never seen him train specifically in kickboxing, so who can really say?

 

[FitesOvrFiters]

I can't really deny that, but my overall point is generally that if you take the average 205/265lb fighter currently competing in the UFC, his chances of doing even reasonably well in another combat-relevant sport besides MMA are decidedly little.

Most lighter weight class fighters are better grapplers and generally much better conditioned as well (though I will concede that this may have to do with simply having less weight to supply with oxygen, etc). Is anyone disputing THAT?

I will grant you that; generally the HW fighters come in to MMA from other sports. However, if you took the average football player and had him try his hand at basketball, odds are the basketball players would do better.

As far as the lighter guys being better conditioned, there's no doubt about that. The bigger you are, the more oxygen your body requires. Anyone who dispuites that is a moron.

 

[yookfarb]

I can't really deny that, but my overall point is generally that if you take the average 205/265lb fighter currently competing in the UFC, his chances of doing even reasonably well in another combat-relevant sport besides MMA are decidedly little.

THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE

You see that guy in your profile, he would get anally destroyed by the likes of Buakaw or actual elite kickboxers his own size.

There is no dispute that guys like Overeem, Hunt, Cro Cop could be elite kickboxers easily, because THEY ALREADY ARE! and same thing goes for guys like Junior that DESTROYED THEM WHEN THEY FOUGHT

 

[Steve08]

lol, are you trolling? Give up, you are dead wrong about every asinine "point" that you have made in this thread...

According to sherdog's rankings which I will provide here
http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/2/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-63095

7/15 fighters qualify as either... World Class Grappling(Gonzaga, Werdum, Barnett, Minakov), Olympian(DC) or High Level Kickboxing(Hunt, Overeem)

what about the rest of them? They all qualify as either highly accomplished amateurs(Miocic-Boxing, Cain-Wrestling, Struve-Amateur MMA), Blackbelts(Nelson, Bigfoot, Cain again), or Junior Dos Santos

Firstly, it should be said that I would appreciate if you ceased attempting to belittle me for the cardinal sin of... *gasp* happening to disagree with you on an internet message board.

further, you're REALLY pushing it with some of those names. Barnett's ADCC bid was almost 15 years ago and consisting of going 2-4 and losing to all of the best grapplers he faced (though, ok, he did recently win the Mundials, so he is world-class at least no-gi), and Minakov has barely even shown any grappling in Bellator as of yet so there's not even any proof he actually has learned to translate his sambo pedigree to MMA. And that bold... really? You are going to describe Miocic as a "highly accomplished amateur", and act as if having a black belt is actually relevant to MMA? the only person out of that whole list of "highly accomplished amateurs" who could be described as a world-class athlete is Cain.

You are grasping at straws now frankly.

That is a bogus dichotomy. It is not either you throw real or throw wild haymakers, there is tons of middle ground. Also, Cain is by no means one-dimensional.

for one thing... yeah, it's not so clear cut, but there is certainly a big difference between a guy who doesn't give a fuck and throws whatever, and someone who at least tries to throw with good technique. And he might not be entirely one-dimensional, but his wrestling is certainly the only aspect of his game which is actually championship level. Having a powerful right hand =/= having a striking game.

 

[nostradumbass]

HWs and women just tend to be slower. The same things don't work for HWs, who aren't as fast but are more powerful, that work for guys moving a smaller body around and can land a fast 3-4 punch combo and still not finish.

The women actually are just unskilled in the standup. There are some women who do have good technique but since so much of the division don't generate as much power in their strikes, their best way to finish is on the ground, so WMMA is very grappling-heavy.

 

[Steve08]

THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE

You see that guy in your profile, he would get anally destroyed by the likes of Buakaw or actual elite kickboxers his own size.

lol that Buakaw name-drop is hilarious. I'm guessing you're gonna tell me he's one of the best nakmuay in the world now when in reality the most significant achievements of his entire career came under the K-1 MAX banner.

Regardless, I doubt Pettis would beat Buakaw or a decent portion of Glory's 70kg division, but he most likely would not be finished, and certainly not dominated as you think. lots of kickboxers don't have footwork as good as his.

Oh, and I have no idea how "the opposite is true" when by "average" I'm talking about guys like, say... Walt Harris or Daniel Omielianczuk, who are both not far removed from the top 15 at HW solely because that division only HAS approximately fighters beyond its top 15. And here you are, still under the impression that outliers are indicative of the average.

sigh

 

[Bigj383]

Heavyweights are skilled but their technique is sometimes lacking due to their natural power. Heavyweights can have less than perfect technique and still lay you out or use their strength to power in and out of submissions, as well as poeer through other grappling techniques.

Women on the other hand are just behind the times when it comes to competition. There just isn't much there. It wasn't until last year that any money was in WMMA. Now it would seem there is more money in WMMA than womans boxing. Especially considering reigning world boxing champions are willing to go through TUF a division up from their natural just to be in the UFC. When you watch Ronda fight he grappling technique is beautiful. I've seen women with equally as impressive striking techniques. But right now a lot of WMMA fighter are just tough girls who train part time.

 

[Melas Chasma]

Just watch Holly Holm then Joanne Calderwood and then consider the impending realization that you have never seen striking that good even in the UFC's women's bantamweight division.

Why you use the word "even" here? BW is widely considered the worst weightclass in WMMA right after FW (FW is almost nonexistent). BW is also a very grappler heavy weightclass anyway.

Its funny to see how people always complain how WMMA has so poor striking and most of the time they only base that on BW fights they have seen. Striking is on a much higher level in smaller weightclasses.