"Women can't strike" and "heavyweights aren't skilled" MYTHS

[Jackpot]

Striking like a women means that you are striking mostly with the strenght of your arms instead of using your whole body weight as a transfer. This is why you rarely see KO from men when they are in clinch or on the ground even when they land very cleanly.

Just watch Tate vs Rousey the first fight in strikeforce, you will see Tate going for a 6-7 punches combo with no weight transfer, shes also looking at the mat at the end of the combo for no reason.

Has nothing to do with their body, its just poor techniques, the talent pool is a lot weaker (obviously more men go into mma then women)

 

[Kaffebaggel]

Oh yeah? Name some... that AREN'T Alistair Overeem, Daniel Cormier, Pat Barry, or Werdum.

haha oh right

Don't forget Hunto

 

[Sirwastealot]

Oh yeah? Name some... that AREN'T Alistair Overeem, Daniel Cormier, Pat Barry, or Werdum.

haha oh right

Crocop, semmy schilt and hunt from K-1, Brock in wrestling.. even Fedor in sambo just off the top of my head. You just named 4 guys yourself, why are you trying to argue a point where you are wrong?

 

[Steve08]

Don't forget Hunto

ah yeah, forgot about him, but to be fair he won that K-1 title more than a decade ago and actually isn't even the same kind of striker as he was back then. Guy is more of a savvy counterpuncher now, whereas he used to be an iron chin and a right hand lol.

 

[Steve08]

Crocop, semmy schilt and hunt from K-1, Brock in wrestling.. even Fedor in sambo just off the top of my head. You just named 4 guys yourself, why are you trying to argue a point where you are wrong?

My point is that this abundance of world-class athletes the dude alleges to exist in the UFC's 205/265lb weight class is not actually there. Or more plainly, my point is that a few exceptions doesn't change the norm. 205 is also pretty shit as far as I'm concerned, no less than 4 of the top 15 at LHW are presently middleweights. Cro Cop, Fedor and Semmy haven't been relevant for ages now either.

 

[yookfarb]

Oh yeah? Name some... that AREN'T Alistair Overeem, Daniel Cormier, Pat Barry, or Werdum.

haha oh right

are you fucking serious right now?

Mark Hunt(Kickboxing champ)
Barnett(ADCC)
Randleman(Olympian)
Kerr(ADCC/USA Wrestling)
Couture(USA Wrestling)
Lindland(Olympic Medalist)
Semmy Schilit(legendary kickboxer)
Cro Cop(kickboxing)
Fedor(5 time Sambo World champion)
Mark Coleman(Olympian)
Jeff Monson(ADCC champion)
Van Arsdale(Olympic Medalist)
Jon Olaf Einemo(ADCC)
Ricardo Arona(ONLY UNDEFEATED PERSON IN THE ADCC)

literally, that's off the top of my head

 

[Super Grover]

I think part of the issue with HW's is that because of the size of these guys, striking plays an inordinately large role in the fight. When either guy just needs to land a single punch to change/end the fight, you are going to focus your training/gameplan more on that than anything else and maybe not get to show off your other skills as much.

 

[EndlessCritic]

I think part of the issue with HW's is that because of the size of these guys, striking plays an inordinately large role in the fight. When either guy just needs to land a single punch to change/end the fight, you are going to focus your training/gameplan more on that than anything else and maybe not get to show off your other skills as much.

The striking level is much higher at 145 than it is at hw.

 

[LeeOx]

Everybody's body is different and they all move differently. When you train in whatever it is that you do, of course part of it will be mistakes that will be fixed with training, but your body will move in its own specific way. If you got a group of people and trained all of them the exact same way, they will all look different in their stances and have their own habits. But, again, training would fix some of these which are down to technique.

 

[Steve08]

are you fucking serious right now?

Mark Hunt(Kickboxing champ)
Barnett(ADCC)
Randleman(Olympian)
Kerr(ADCC/USA Wrestling)
Couture(USA Wrestling)
Lindland(Olympic Medalist)
Semmy Schilit(legendary kickboxer)
Cro Cop(kickboxing)
Fedor(5 time Sambo World champion)
Mark Coleman(Olympian)
Jeff Monson(ADCC champion)
Van Arsdale(Olympic Medalist)
Jon Olaf Einemo(ADCC)
Ricardo Arona(ONLY UNDEFEATED PERSON IN THE ADCC)

literally, that's off the top of my head

Ok, those are all fair if this topic was about the 265 or 205 division historically, but we are talking about "modern new breed UFC heavyweights" (and I will concede that I should have made more of an effort to make that distinction). Regardless, my prior statement holds entirely true when viewed in that light. Out of all those names I'm pretty sure Monson and Hunt are the ONLY ones who aren't long retired or no longer competing in MMA, and Hunt (bolded for emphasis) is the only one who is currently in a position to fight anyone in the top 10.

Oh, and Randleman is not an Olympian, but he did collect two NCAA championships without even making it to his senior year of college.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Ok, those are all fair if this topic was about the 265 or 205 division historically, but we are talking about "modern new breed UFC heavyweights" (and I will concede that I should have made more of an effort to make that distinction). But regardless, my prior statement holds entirely true when viewed in that light. Out of all those names I'm pretty sure Monson and Hunt are the ONLY ones who aren't long retired or no longer competing in MMA.

Oh, and Randleman is not an Olympian, but he did collect two NCAA championships and didn't even make it to his senior year of college.

Have you heard of Fabricio Werdum or Satoshi Ishii?

ADCC champ and olympic gold medalist?

 

[EliteLurker]

Everyone knows the guys who fight at HW aren't the same level of athlete as other divisions. When you watch mainstream sports you see 6'2''-6'7'' guys who leap through the air, run for longs periods of time, and that display crazy agility. We don't see that often in mma.

You can't say HW doesn't have accomplished athletes, but I think it's very valid to question the overall talent level of that division.

 

[Steve08]

Have you heard of Fabricio Werdum or Satoshi Ishii?

ADCC champ and olympic gold medalist?

I have indeed although I thought Ishii was retired for some reason, idk why. damn that guy's had a nice year.

Regardless, I was operating under the impression that yookfarb's post was suggesting that submission grapplers as credentialed as Werdum are relatively easy to find in the UFC's 265/205lb division, which is simply not true. In fact I do not believe there are even any other ADCC medalists competing in either division besides Werdum.

 

[FitesOvrFiters]

My point is that this abundance of world-class athletes the dude alleges to exist in the UFC's 205/265lb weight class is not actually there. Or more plainly, my point is that a few exceptions doesn't change the norm. 205 is also pretty shit as far as I'm concerned, no less than 4 of the top 15 at LHW are presently middleweights. Cro Cop, Fedor and Semmy haven't been relevant for ages now either.

You're going off sheer numbers. His point was a comparative one: the 205/265 lb divisions have MORE THAN the others. That is true.

Brock - Wrestling National Champion
Cain - Wrestling
Schaub - Professional Football
Carwin - Football College All-American/Wrestling National Champion
Cormier - Wrestling Olympian
Mir - Jiu-Jitsu
Nog - Jiu-Jitsu
Nelson - Jiu-Jitsu
Werdum - Jiu-Jitsu
Hunt - Kickboxing
Cro-Cop - Kick Boxing
Couture - Wrestling Olympic Alternate
Overeem - Kickboxing
Fedor - Sambo

And that's just heavyweight

 

[BigMuffler]

You're going off sheer numbers. His point was a comparative one: the 205/265 lb divisions have MORE THAN the others. That is true.

Brock - Wrestling National Champion
Cain - Wrestling
Schaub - Professional Football
Carwin - Football College All-American/Wrestling National Champion
Cormier - Wrestling Olympian
Mir - Jiu-Jitsu
Nog - Jiu-Jitsu
Nelson - Jiu-Jitsu
Werdum - Jiu-Jitsu
Hunt - Kickboxing
Cro-Cop - Kick Boxing
Couture - Wrestling Olympic Alternate
Overeem - Kickboxing
Fedor - Sambo

And that's just heavyweight

When I saw Schaub I thought you were going to put BJJ lol.

 

[FitesOvrFiters]

When I saw Schaub I thought you were going to put BJJ lol.

Schuab doesn't even do BJJ. He does SJJ. It's a whole different level. He isn't a champion in it because no one else can compete at that level to create a competition.

 

[Steve08]

You're going off sheer numbers. His point was a comparative one: the 205/265 lb divisions have MORE THAN the others. That is true.

I can't really deny that, but my overall point is generally that if you take the average 205/265lb fighter currently competing in the UFC, his chances of doing even reasonably well in another combat-relevant sport besides MMA are decidedly little.

Most lighter weight class fighters are better grapplers and generally much better conditioned as well (though I will concede that this may have to do with simply having less weight to supply with oxygen, etc). Is anyone disputing THAT?

 

[yookfarb]

Ok, those are all fair if this topic was about the 265 or 205 division historically, but we are talking about "modern new breed UFC heavyweights" (and I will concede that I should have made more of an effort to make that distinction). Regardless, my prior statement holds entirely true when viewed in that light. Out of all those names I'm pretty sure Monson and Hunt are the ONLY ones who aren't long retired or no longer competing in MMA, and Hunt (bolded for emphasis) is the only one who is currently in a position to fight anyone in the top 10.

Oh, and Randleman is not an Olympian, but he did collect two NCAA championships without even making it to his senior year of college.

lol, are you trolling? Give up, you are dead wrong about every asinine "point" that you have made in this thread...

According to sherdog's rankings which I will provide here
http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/2/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-63095

7/15 fighters qualify as either... World Class Grappling(Gonzaga, Werdum, Barnett, Minakov), Olympian(DC) or High Level Kickboxing(Hunt, Overeem)

what about the rest of them? They all qualify as either highly accomplished amateurs(Miocic-Boxing, Cain-Wrestling, Struve-Amateur MMA), Blackbelts(Nelson, Bigfoot, Cain again), or Junior Dos Santos

 

[EndlessCritic]

I have indeed although I thought Ishii was retired for some reason, idk why. damn that guy's had a nice year.

Regardless, I was operating under the impression that yookfarb's post was suggesting that submission grapplers as credentialed as Werdum are relatively easy to find in the UFC's 265/205lb division, which is simply not true. In fact I do not believe there are even any other ADCC medalists competing in either division besides Werdum.

Only because vinny magalhaes just retired, and roger gracie got cut.

 

[stormcloud67]

Totally didn't read the whole thread, but as a former 300lb dude and now 235lb guy i will say it likely has to do with the lack of population in the division and the fact that when you have a larger bigger body it just takes more time to recuperate between sessions.