Will BJJ eventually devolve into a TMA?

[superpunch]

What is this BJJ ruleset that you are talking about? There are many different rulesets. Some are more entertaining than others, but there certainly is different rulesets that different competitions are using. In what rules are people spamming submissions? Sounds interesting!

Also I think it’s a bit too much to say that BJJ completely lacks athleticism. You could say thay about (almost) any sport. Including punching in the rules doesn’t exactly promote athleticism. This just makes you sound anti-BJJ, which is totally fine since you are allowed to have whatever opinion you like.

You have guys at high levels in BJJ doing stuff like becoming experts at armbars and guard submissions. Like how some TKD guys become experts at flying tornado kicks. Completely unrealistic and it's because of the ruleset.

 

[dirtroller]

TKD has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. TKD still sucks.

Point karate has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. It still sucks.

Both of them suck because they have unrealistic rulesets.

BJJ is going down that same classic TMA path of being completely unrealistic. As the sport of MMA has evolved, BJJ's lack of athleticism and complete lack of dynamic movement, takedowns, and TDD has resulted in wrestling becoming the predominant grappling art by a huge margin.

BJJ's ruleset promotes guys that pull guard, play from the bottom, look for too many submissions, completely lack athleticism, etc. That's a bad ruleset because all those things get you demolished as soon as the ruleset incorporates more realistic things like punching, scrambles, more takedowns, etc. Wrestling's ruleset and especially sambo encourage you to get into better positions for these things and get out of positions that put you into bad positions for them.

Self defense techniques aimed at defending wrist grabs and rape chokes are equally useless. So it’s not about the self defense vs sport dichotomy.

I agree the rules should be altered to discourage butt scooting and guard pulling (see my second post).

 

[Beastos]

How come guys like Roger and Kron use what is essentially old school BJJ and have so much success. I know this is the tip of the iceberg because Roger is basically the best ever but you understand what I mean.

I’d imagine they try learn all the new stuff that comes out as well but their system is old school for the most part.

I think perhaps you have to go back further than 10 years ago. But once again I’m talking about the best guys on the other side of the spectrum.

Roger Gracie is a special human being when it comes to BJJ. He's also exposed to modern BJJ daily . He trains at GB in London . Gracie Barra is one of the most dominant teams in the IBJJF . They've produced a shit ton of modern BJJ monsters like Roger, Romulo Barral, Otavio Sousa, Edwin Najmi, Grabriel Arges , and the list goes on . Kron didn't do so hot towards the end of his BJJ career , specially in the Gi. He actually never won world's in the Gi.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Roger Gracie is a special human being when it comes to BJJ. He's also exposed to modern BJJ daily . He trains at GB in London . Gracie Barra is one of the most dominant teams in the IBJJF . They've produced a shit ton of modern BJJ monsters like Roger, Romulo Barral, Otavio Sousa, Edwin Najmi, Grabriel Arges , and the list goes on . Kron didn't do so hot towards the end of his BJJ career , specially in the Gi. He actually never won world's in the Gi.

Yeah but prime Roger would beat every guy you listed with old school BJJ.

I just used Kron as an example because he’s high level and uses whats essentially old school BJJ.


I get what you mean though, BJJ has gone through many changes throughout the years. Important techniques or systems have come and gone but the top level guys who use old school BJJ could hang and beat any practitioner from any era.

It is fun watching guys who come from different systems though. Dahnaer guy, berimbolo guys, guys with specific guard systems, etc etc

 

[2004 account]

How can it?

Bjj has already been proven to be one of the 3 most effective singular disciplines needed to succeed at mma.

Dumb question.

When you say traditional martial arts, you think of pure disciplines like karate, tae Kwon do, Kung fu and such

Not bjj which is a derivative art that stems from judo.

 

[dirtroller]

Rickson is delusional a competitive purple belt would smash a black belt of 10 years ago . I've been training for 12 years so I know how much BJJ has evolved .

I agree. This is probably a result of increased participation and a growing network of competitive tournaments springing up.

 

[MikeyB]

This is dumb. BJJ is full contact. The rules in most grappling comp discourage guard pulling. In fact in most competitions if you flop on top during a guard pull you get two points.

The reality is that some moves and some of the fancy shit gets weird because both of your arms are tied up in a sweep and the other guy would just punch you. On the other hand in boxing, the footwork is garbage because you'd either shoot a single or leg kick the guy.

BJJ will never become non contact.

 

[Beastos]

Yeah but prime Roger would beat every guy you listed with old school BJJ.

I just used Kron as an example because he’s high level and uses whats essentially old school BJJ.


I get what you mean though, BJJ has gone through many changes throughout the years. Important techniques or systems have come and gone but the top level guys who use old school BJJ could hang and beat any practitioner from any era.

It is fun watching guys who come from different systems though. Dahnaer guy, berimbolo guys, guys with specific guard systems, etc etc

I mean Roger has always been ahead of his time though . Also he's a closed guard player , the closed guard is timeless . Look at Shaolin for example he's been getting subbed by guys I've never even heard of .

 

[Bubblun]

Not to be that guy, but there is a thread about the same subject with 20 plus pages, what's the point of having another one?

Rickson is starting shit as usual, it's about politics, he wants to have his own jiu jitsu league and be the man like the old days.
The level of jiu jitsu skyrocketed in the last 20 years.

 

[Blayt7hh]

No it’s still fundamentally different in how it’s practiced. TKD doesn’t suck because it got too fancy. It sucks because you don’t really fight anyone in it. I saw your post saying they sparred. They do, it’s just worthless sparring. The fight is stopped after each blow is landed. A flicking jab counts for as much as a Chuck Liddel overhand in tkd. Its not real sparring

 

[Mike K.O]

CACC>BJJ
Deal with it

 

[HelloJapan]

Or will BJJ splinter into 2 different styles: one for sport and one for self-defense

That already happened years ago.

 

[ftpngo]

Sport vs Self defense is not the problem. The problem with TMA is that it isn’t practiced regularly against opponents that are resisting.

/thread

 

[gevoudane]

More like judo. Its like a loop.

 

[Kinosis]

join a gym and roll with a blue belt, then come back here and tell me how it's a TMA.

they will twist you into a pretzel.

Just rolled with a black belt in judo/purple belt in bjj a few weeks ago and did fine. Stop making stupid claims when you have no information.

 

[Sapp]

Just rolled with a black belt in judo/purple belt in bjj a few weeks ago and did fine. Stop making stupid claims when you have no information.

What's your background in martial arts?

 

[randomg1t]

Just rolled with a black belt in judo/purple belt in bjj a few weeks ago and did fine. Stop making stupid claims when you have no information.

yeah, i'm gonna have to call bullshit on that.

no one walks into any legit gym for the first time and "does fine" against a purple belt, leading them to believe that BJJ is now a useless TMA. no one.

well, not unless you're a 220lbs wrestler and the purple belt you rolled with was a 120lb girl.

 

[It-is-what-it-is]

Da fooking does TMA mean?

 

[EXOICHO]

It could happen eventually. Were seeingWe're seeing judo become less and less effective with the new rules. I went to a judo dojo to try it out in my city, and when we were sparring even some of the upper belts were clueless with how to handle a double or a single leg. But I don't see BJJ rules ever being as stupid as the judo ones.

 

[Kinosis]

What's your background in martial arts?

Kickboxing, karate, been training in grappling (BJJ, Judo, Catch) off and on for maybe 18 years. I am mostly into powerlifting now, but still grapple maybe 6-10 times a year just not to lose everything. Which is the point, the guy made a comment about a blue belt twisting me into a pretzel when he had no clue what my background is, how old I am, if I am a man or a woman. He knew nothing but was making claims like he had all of the facts, yet he had none. Ultimately he was being emotional because I am not a big fan of the modern buttscooting sport type of bjj. He can disagree with me, but he can't make knowledge claims when he has no facts.