Will BJJ eventually devolve into a TMA?

[Kinosis]

Da fooking does TMA mean?

A martial art that is unrealistic for fighting. Like a lot of modern sport TKD schools. It's not useless, you will be flexible, develop kicking ability, etc. But you won't be prepared for a real fight because you have never done live sparring with real strikes, etc.

 

[FKA]

I personally feel that ground strikes need to be added to BJJ and catchwrestling.

BJJ and wrestlers would be alot more effective offensively and defensively if they had more practice dealing with strikes and utilizing them to set up submissions.

 

[It's-Only-Business]

A martial art that is unrealistic for fighting. Like a lot of modern sport TKD schools. It's not useless, you will be flexible, develop kicking ability, etc. But you won't be prepared for a real fight because you have never done live sparring with real strikes, etc.

1ti1


Did you use your Sherdog Blue Belt?

 

[wufabufa]

I personally feel that ground strikes need to be added to BJJ and catchwrestling.

BJJ and wrestlers would be alot more effective offensively and defensively if they had more practice dealing with strikes and utilizing them to set up submissions.

Watch the next EBI tournament. Striking is permitted once the match hits the ground.

 

[Kinosis]

1ti1


Did you use your Sherdog Blue Belt?

1ti1?

Use it for what? Posting on here? All the time.

 

[FKA]

Watch the next EBI tournament. Striking is permitted once the match hits the ground.

Definetly will bud thx

 

[Your Noodly Master]

Rickson is delusional a competitive purple belt would smash a black belt of 10 years ago . I've been training for 12 years so I know how much BJJ has evolved .

LOL, LO f'n L. Thanks for this. Funniest thing I've read today.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

Rickson is delusional a competitive purple belt would smash a black belt of 10 years ago . I've been training for 12 years so I know how much BJJ has evolved .

Furthermore, here's a partial list of some 2008 black belts who would be smashed by today's purples.

 

[Beastos]

Furthermore, here's a partial list of some 2008 black belts who would be smashed by today's purples.

Dude those are fucken legends there's a reason I left out " competitive" black belt and put in "competive" purple belt .

 

[Beastos]

Tell me purple belts in today's age aren't way more fucken advance than a regular black belt ten years ago? The divisions are stacked , you'll get like 150 + brackets in tournament's at purple , back in the day you were lucky if there was 10 people in your bracket .

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Maybe there are specific instances of full contact sparring in Karate but that is far from the norm from what I've seen.

Old school karate guys went full contact, and it became kickboxing. Some karateka are happy point sparring. They both serve a purpose in my opinion.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I think the further away you get from anything being in its original context you risk the chance for it to be watered down. Karate has a lot of factions, federations, associations etc. I'm not sure about TKD, I have zero experience with it.

When people become the heads of these groups and they determine that they want to implement their own ideologies you run the risk of it losing its original essence, and purity. Judo is an example of a martial art that seems to be very well centrally governed compared to most others.

I'm always hearing about local bjj gyms cutting their affiliations, and going independent. If they're operating largely as an independent gym who knows what is being taught there? The guy who the gym got its name from may come around what, once maybe twice a year? That is if they remain under him to begin with.

If BJJ gets watered down I feel it is largely on the instructors, and the named persons in the community because they are supposed to be the "heads of the household". I don't think it can ever become a TMA. I think for something to be a TMA it has to be originally from Asia. I could be mistaken in that thought process, but I think TMAs are all Asian in origin. BJJ as we tend to think of it is not.

 

[tekkenfan]

and m

Sport vs Self defense is not the problem. The problem with TMA is that it isn’t practiced regularly against opponents that are resisting.

most tma's only practice 2 times a week max most even once a week its hard to get good at anything with only 2 days a week

 

[nefti]

Most TMAs dont even spar. Bjj will allways have active reaistance as part of its identity.

 

[yetanother]

How come guys like Roger and Kron use what is essentially old school BJJ and have so much success. I know this is the tip of the iceberg because Roger is basically the best ever but you understand what I mean.

Roger's BJJ is more retro then old school. There is a difference between using refined and reinvented versions of classic techniques mixed in with some new stuff to reinforce them then badly done traditional variants mixed in with some obsolete crap moves.

 

[yetanother]

But then what if BJJ eventually becomes a TMA itself due to growing BJJ sport./QUOTE]

TMA suck so badly because they are self defense focused.

 

[yetanother]

Point karate has sparring and is practiced regularly against resisting opponents. It still sucks.

Point karate still works better in the UFC then all the self defence oriented martial arts.

 

[Crotalis]

It could happen eventually. Were seeingWe're seeing judo become less and less effective with the new rules. I went to a judo dojo to try it out in my city, and when we were sparring even some of the upper belts were clueless with how to handle a double or a single leg. But I don't see BJJ rules ever being as stupid as the judo ones.

I wouldn't say Judo has become less effective over-all, so much as it has become less effective against wrestling in particular. A . solid Judoka is still going to put the hurt on an untrained attacker.

Also, comparing Judo to BJJ (for the purposed of this thread anyway) isn't really a good comparison. The big issue with Judo is that there's essentially one rule set. Yes, you can occasionally find local tournaments that don't restrict athletes to the Olympic style, but that's very rare. So the style and the ruleset have kind of merged. With BJJ, while the IBJJF is still the dominate organization, there are many other major competitions that do not use the same ruleset, and these tournaments are often more accessible to the average practitioner than the IBJJF comps are.

In terms of BJJ becoming the next LARPfest - anything could happen, but I don't see it. A lot of that fear stems from the marketing of the "self-defense" schools such as some of the Gracies and places like the Valente brothers. These schools would have you believe that the instant you learn rDLR, you will forget the basic techniques and become completely incapable of defending yourself. I've been to a few of these schools and have seen some odd things. For example, I saw a guy get his brown belt by being able to execute a pre-planned series of "self defense" moves against completely compliant attackers ... sound familiar? Most of the moves were also pretty unrealistic. BUT - at the end of that class, they still rolled. The truth is, if you're unarmed and the other guy has a knife or gun, you're probably gonna lose. If you are in a 1-1 fight with no weapons, and the assailant is untrained - pretty much all you need for 90% of those situations is a double leg and good top control. You should be able to manage this regardless of what type of BJJ school you go to.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

Tell me purple belts in today's age aren't way more fucken advance than a regular black belt ten years ago? The divisions are stacked , you'll get like 150 + brackets in tournament's at purple , back in the day you were lucky if there was 10 people in your bracket .

More advanced? No. At what, berimbolo and double guard pulls? They fight for points now more than submissions. The only ones it might be true for are from the academies that don't promote so they can sandbag and win tournaments.

Agree to disagree.

 

[yetanother]

More advanced? No. At what, berimbolo and double guard pulls? They fight for points now more than submissions. The only ones it might be true for are from the academies that don't promote so they can sandbag and win tournaments.

Agree to disagree.

The goal of a berimbolo style game is to choke people from the back. In term of submission any decent heel hooker would tap the average black belt from 10 years ago at will.