Why is Sherdog okay with tapping to submissions but not tapping to strikes? | Page 11

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by PrideJitZoo, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. sprucelees Silver Belt

    sprucelees
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    How about throwing in the towel mid round, or not coming out for the next round? Is that worse or better than tapping?
     
    #201
  2. sadowolf Chalk Belt

    sadowolf
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    Not sure why my reffing would matter too much haha, but I'd say in those fights everyone on the receiving end of the beatings never just took it lying down and demonstrated that they still had more to give. There was a point where I may have stopped the Kongo/Barry but that's pretty much it. That was the only one of the three you listed where I was watching it and thought someone was "done" when they weren't. But none of them were exactly trapped in their situations. They all stayed moving and refused to stay down, and never looked to be in a position where I would think they'd tap to strikes because they were able to create some distance. I think a key factor in all those fights (to my recollection) was that none of those withstanding the beatings really got trapped in positions where they couldn't quickly move and escape. It would've been odd to see any of the three tap because they were getting tagged but never really wilted and always responded with immediacy. Hey, they're all obviously tough as nails and that made for some epic moments; I never tried to imply that everyone should tap to strikes when they're in trouble. I'm referring to situations where someone takes a lot of damage, is in a situation where when you combine the position with their rattled brain there isn't too much recourse for escape, and their body won't shut off. I'm not saying even in that situation that someone absolutely needs to tap, just that I don't think lesser of them if they do. I'm thinking something similar to the Lesnar/Mir fight; Mir was trapped up against the cage in half guard with Brock just blasting him, and I wouldn't have thought any less of Mir if at a point he tapped (might have been shocked though, as I don't see Mir as the type). The Finney fight most definitely should've been stopped. At a point it became clear she could do nothing but aim to survive. At this point I don't expect most corners to stop fights, but Kim Winslow was horrible in there letting her take that beating. If Jan wanted out in a particularly bad situation I wouldn't blame her at all.

    But it seems we're at least on a more similar page with this even if we don't agree fully; I think we both thought the other was more extreme in their stance than either of us actually is.
     
    #202
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  3. TheRassler ---- L E G E N D A R Y --------- p4p GOAT poster

    TheRassler
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    There were 281 concussions reported this season in the nfl. How many in the ufc this year??? And that’s just concussions alone, not including all of the other freak injuries that happen in the nfl.

    If you don’t think the nfl is more dangerous, you obviously know nothing about sports.
     
    #203
  4. Prince Nephilim Brown Belt

    Prince Nephilim
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    Tapping to strikes just has that negative connotation that if you had the strength and your wits to tap then you had the power to do something other than give up.

    We all tap out in bjj class, matter of fact, it's encouraged. So Tapping to a submission is alittle ingrained and dare I say even natural under those circumstances
     
    #204
  5. djason1988 Purple Belt

    djason1988
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    100% depends on the situation. If your already concussed and getting the life beat out of you, tap. If you're "stuck" in a position (crucifix, Maia backpack, etc) tap. But you have to be clearly losing badly before a tap is accepted.
     
    #205
  6. Towerworld Purple Belt

    Towerworld
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    IT seems that you're the one who doesn't understand either sport:
    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...in-almost-a-third-of-professional-bouts-study
    One third of mma fights end up with someone having serious head trauma. Not to mention that there are 3x as many NFL players than there are UFC fighters and they also play 16 Times per year while UFC fighters fight at most 4 times per year. I'll say it again you're a total idiot and my iq points dwindle every single time I'm forced to read your retardation.
     
    #206
  7. djason1988 Purple Belt

    djason1988
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    The NFL had almost 1700 players, the UFC a third of that. And NFL players have games every week for months. A fighter might fight 2-3 times a year. 4-5 is exceptionally active. And even in victory, a lot of these guys walk out with minor concussions.
     
    #207
  8. TheRassler ---- L E G E N D A R Y --------- p4p GOAT poster

    TheRassler
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    You’re gonna compare someone who fights 2-3 times a year (if that) to come someone who plays a dangerous sport every week for 20-24 weeks?? Not counting practice. And these guys have been playing football since they were little kids.

    It’s official, you’re a retard.
     
    #208
  9. Towerworld Purple Belt

    Towerworld
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    Im talking about an individual fight u idiot when you're grounded and taking shots with the ref not stopping it idiot.
     
    #209
  10. truthisfreedom Purple Belt

    truthisfreedom
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    The only reason why this thread was made is because OP is a GSP fan.

    If he wasn't, he'd see how silly it looks when a professional fighter taps to strikes.
     
    #210
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  11. grimballer Silver Belt

    grimballer
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    You’re desperately trying to equate the two, but they’re simply not the same. It’s comparing apples to oranges.

    When you’re in s submission your opponent got a hold on you, that’s why it’s called a submission hold. You can try to escape, but when you feel it’s deep n basically you don’t have to tools to escape, you tap. Fans give the fighter the benefit of the doubt n assume he tapped just before getting the limb broken/going to sleep. Sometimes fighters will get criticized for tapping too quick as the sub didn’t seem deep, but for the most part they are given the benefit of the doubt as the consequence for not tapping is instantaneous n the ref will not step in to prevent the fighter from going to sleep/getting limb broken. Also majority of fighters will tap in same position.

    With strikes it’s different. The opponent doesn’t have a hold on you, n every time he strikes it gives you opportunity to move n improve your position.

    The consequences for not tapping are also not instantaneous. You may or may not go to sleep n long term damage may or may not happen. (Keep in mind we’re talking about a sport where your opponent can ko you stiff n then deliver few more blows while you’re unconscious).

    The ref is also supposed to step in when you’re no longer defending yourself.

    N finally most guys will not tap in those positions n will try to find a way to survive instead.
     
    #211
  12. ThunderStruck Geodor GemeSianenPo

    ThunderStruck
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    Most knock downs are actually a concussions.
    All ko's are concussions.
     
    #212
  13. ThunderStruck Geodor GemeSianenPo

    ThunderStruck
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    Spoken like a true keyboard warrior. Pretty sure you're one big pussy in real life.
     
    #213
  14. JohnMandick Interim Saku belt

    JohnMandick
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    Exactly.

    Nothing wrong with tapping when you are bested.
     
    #214
  15. TheRassler ---- L E G E N D A R Y --------- p4p GOAT poster

    TheRassler
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    Correct.

    The only fans defending tap to strikes are butthurt GSP fans.
     
    #215
  16. TheRassler ---- L E G E N D A R Y --------- p4p GOAT poster

    TheRassler
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    An individual fight lasts 15 to 25 minutes max, many of them don’t even last 5 minutes, and many of them barely even fight a couple times a year. A single football game lasts about 3 hours no matter the outcome, for about 6 months straight out of the year, you idiot. Did you fail math in middle school or something?
     
    #216
  17. Towerworld Purple Belt

    Towerworld
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    I was talking about a circumstance where the grounded fighter was taking a severe beating. That is an extremely dangerous position to be in for head trauma more so than any sport.
    Generally MMA is safe for what it is but when you have the few idiot refs like mazzagatti and mario who don't protect the fighters you get situations like the gif i posted in my previous post. You think you wouldn't tap if you were on the recieving end of that beating?


    But still derail and Talk about the sports as a whole you're still very wrong there are far more KO's or concussions for the number of fighters not to mention other injuries like broken orbital ect and several deaths that have occured.
     
    #217
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  18. AnotherOldGuy Purple Belt

    AnotherOldGuy
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    Yes, but the difference is the apples (chokes and locks) have much less serious consequences than the oranges (concussions).

    You seem to think that you have the tools to escape when you're going unconscious. As anyone who has been there can tell you, you don't. Going unconscious from a head blow (or a choke) isn't like watching a TV screen fade away, you lose both your perception (including your sense of where your limbs are and what they're doing) and your awareness of what you're doing and where you are.

    You're talking about people who tap against strikes while still fully aware of their body and surroundings. Yes, in that case you can respond, just as you can still respond when someone has a choke or lock that isn't sunk in yet - and tapping in that situation is as wrong as tapping to a non-sunk in submission.

    But tapping to strikes while still completely aware and conscious is as rare as people tapping to chokes before starting to lose consciousness. When you're rocked, when you're dizzy, you're still aware, still able to respond. But that's not when people tap to strikes. Fighters who've tapped to strikes (Shogun, GSP) have been rocked without tapping a number of times. If it were about cowardice they'd be tapping every time they were rocked, or even every time they were hit. Is that what you see happening?

    When they tap to strikes is when they start to lose consciousness - when they're not aware of where they are, or often even who they are (its actually a weird feeling). You've no more ability to survive that without a major screwup on your opponent's part than you have the ability to survive a sunk in lock or choke without a major screwup on your opponent's part.

    If refs were good, then there'd never be a need to tap to strikes, and then you'd be right that tapping was cowardly - the ref would stop it before you went unconscious. The same is true for chokes and locks btw - in youth judo good refs will stop the contest when they see someone going out, or when they see their arm being bent unnaturally. But refs aren't consistently good, and in fact many are simply lousy. Waiting for the ref to stop it when you're losing consciousness to strikes is as silly as waiting for the ref to stop it when you're losing consciousness to chokes or having your ligaments/tendon's stretched in a lock - take it from someone who's referred a lot of judo matches, seen a lot of chokes and locks; the ref can't feel your arm or your loss of consciousness. And they're if anything worse at distinguishing when someone is losing consciousness from strikes.

    You seem to think losing consciousness from strikes is like watching a move with a fading screen, where you're completely aware of what's going on but just seeing less. That's simply not the case, your whole body shuts down, and you're left with small reflexes.
     
    #218

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