Why is Sherdog okay with tapping to submissions but not tapping to strikes? | Page 9

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by PrideJitZoo, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. grimballer Silver Belt

    grimballer
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    You’re mixing too many things at the same time here

    It was known for a long time that getting hit in the head isn’t a good thing

    Term “punch drunk” been around for a long time n it refers to boxers who have been hit too many times n they had slurred speech or showed signs of Dementia

    There’s also Ali n his Parkinson disease was believed to be linked to his boxing career

    Everybody’s pretty much aware that blows to the head are not good n can cause neurological problems later on

    As fighter you gotta accept these things n be aware that fighting might lead to brain/head problems later on

    If you’re concerned with these issues then fighting career isn’t the best path

    Tapping to strikes to avoid couple of extra punches isn’t gonna change much in a long fighting career where a person is gonna get hit to the head over 1000 times

    It’s like going to the Vegas n losing 10000$ In casinos but then getting upset for spending 100$ in a strip joint n acting like the reason you have 10100$ less in your bank account is the strippers

    Also like somebody else already mentioned if your hands are free to tap, you can do something else instead. Try to improve your position, block, tie the guy up ...

    In a sub you’re stuck. You can move try to escape, but when the sub is deep you know it n it’s either you’re gonna go to sleep or get your limb broken. The ref will not step in after you’re out/have broken limb

    With strikes the ref will step in before you go completely out.

    Another thing with tapping is you’re not protecting yourself. You give your opponent an opening to hit you without you protecting yourself.

    You’re better off covering up n protecting yourself n let the ref step in then tapping n letting your opponent hit you straight in the face with no protection
     
    #161
  2. cevo Black Belt

    cevo
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    So why tap to a choke then? According to your own logic: If you can tap, you can defend the choke. And chokes are almost completely safe compared to head strikes.
     
    #162
  3. EGarrett Red Belt

    EGarrett
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    No because when a choke is under your chin, you can't do much with your arm. Whereas in most cases when you're being struck (not all cases of course), you can use that arm to cover your face. The defense you can mount with the arm is far more effective.
     
    #163
  4. cevo Black Belt

    cevo
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    What if you're so rocked that you know that there's no recovering? I wouldn't have cared if Aldo tapped out against Holloway (first fight) or RDA against Alvarez. They were so out of it for a relatively long time there was no chance for a comeback.
     
    #164
  5. Bigz132 Orange Belt

    Bigz132
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    Tapping when there is no way out is only barely acceptable. Tapping to strikes is a bitch move
     
    #165
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  6. IDGETKTFO Red Belt

    IDGETKTFO
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    Its the Ref's job to stop the fight when a fighter has had enough strikes. Its the fighters job to tap when they are in a sub they can't defend. Tapping to strikes is pussy shit.
     
    #166
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  7. EGarrett Red Belt

    EGarrett
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    If you're that rocked then you won't have the presence of mind to tap.

    Note, I'm not saying that fighters should never tap to strikes, it's their own health on the line and not mine, I'm just saying that this is why I think fans perceive it as weak.
     
    #167
  8. sadowolf Chalk Belt

    sadowolf
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    Then I guess we need some clarity here then. Mentioning CTE is more a risk proposition; there still isn't a ton known about the direct causation of CTE in any given situation. It hasn't been narrowed down to "situation A where the fighter sustained GnP caused their CTE," but the risk is there and it's known. Therefore it's not unreasonable for someone to have that in mind whenever their in a situation where they're sustaining a lot of head trauma. That's very different from someone thinking "I've been in a lot of armbars lately; better tap or I'll become paralyzed from it." The threat of CTE is a little more present, partly because of the uncertainty that doesn't really come to play when talking limb submissions. I know the types of situations you mentioned in terms of tapping to strikes, and I simply said they should need to already have happened in order for you to know you're not improving the situation. You don't need to wait for an orbital break. Obviously you should have least tried to better your position though.

    Your example of a fighter taking a cross and tapping is just an example of you using hyperbole as well. That is EXACTLY the type of situation I mentioned in my very first response to you that makes it NOT okay to tap to strikes. A fighter thinking they couldn't win from in that situation would come off like a quitter simply because they're not in a situation of grave danger and they have many clear options. Tapping at the first sign of danger was never something I claimed to endorse, and in fact I clearly condemned it from the jump. I'm talking about situations where you're taking a sustained beating, you're badly rocked and discombobulated, maybe you've been dropped, your opponent is in a dominant position, you've tried to improve your own, and you're pretty much just getting pounded on. Situations where easily the most likely result of you not tapping is just that you'll continue getting pounded on. I'm not talking Bob Sapp or Eddy Bengtsson shit here. If you take a hard shot and feel the need to tap out then you should maybe consider another line of work. But if you're getting pounded on, your brain can't make sense of what to do, and more shots keep coming, I don't see anything wrong with tapping to fight another day. In your posts you make it sound like unless there's a serious injury or you can't move at all you shouldn't be tapping. All I'm saying is that if you're taking a lot of damage in a situation where there's a minuscule likelihood of you turning things around then sure I'll think highly of you as a fighter for not giving up and trying to be that small percentage who escapes; that's a show of amazing heart and you're a warrior. But to me tapping in that situation, where escape is possible but not likely, doesn't automatically make you a bitch. If you're tapping in a situation that many have worked through, then yeah you might be a bitch. If you don't agree with that then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
    #168
  9. RogerB08 Red Belt

    RogerB08
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    Not necessarily. You don’t need to be asleep to not be able to protect yourself.
     
    #169
  10. RogerB08 Red Belt

    RogerB08
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    Not sure where you’re going with this. If you catch someone in a submission hold in a street fight, are you going to stop cranking because they say no more?
     
    #170
  11. SuperNerd Playoff Mode.

    SuperNerd
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    Sherdoggers are all fake, wannabe tough guy, smart asses.
     
    #171
  12. Shaddows Gold Belt

    Shaddows
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    I agree.
    Like how GSP tapped to Serra, right? ;)
     
    #172
  13. SuperHoss Black Belt

    SuperHoss
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    Internet Toughness, FTW!

    It is like asking a kindergarten kid what he wants to eat for lunch every day and then complaining because he has cavities for eating candy every day for lunch.
     
    #173
  14. Shaddows Gold Belt

    Shaddows
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    IMO this.
    I don't mind.
    Matter of fact, I would have preferred JDS tapping to Cain than the beating that took his soul... he was never the same after that.

    But you gotta admire guys like Nog, who got famous for getting beaten throughout the fight until he succeeds in getting that submission... I recall the term "Getting the Victory from the jaws of defeat" more than once when he fought...one of the reasons he was so adored...
    And let us ont forget he didn't tap to Mir (who broke his arm), and when asked if he would have tapped if he could go back in time, he answered "I would continue trying to get out (and not tap)"....
    Some fighters are just tough!!!
     
    #174
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  15. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

    jeremyemilio
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    Two things get missed in this line of reasoning:

    1. A choke doesn't cause "disfigurement" or any real damage, and a lot of chokes aren't even particularly uncomfortable. Teen kids choke each other out for shits and giggles.

    2. There have been a shit load (and I mean a SHIT LOAD) of guys who have intentionally put themselves in position to be caught in a choke for the sole purposes of tapping out. Sometimes to save themselves from strikes... but sometimes just because they're exhausted and want to call it a night, pick up a check, and head home.
     
    #175
  16. aRtFuL Brown Belt

    aRtFuL
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    Either one is okay. Only people who never fought in the ring will believe otherwise.

    It already takes plenty of heart for someone to go into a ring in the first place.
     
    #176
  17. chaos_36 DOOM all capitals no trick spelling.

    chaos_36
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    What would you have done if you were refereeing say Kongo/Barry? Or Edgar/Maynard 2? Or Diaz/Daley? All of these are instances where the rocked fighter looked completely out to it. Almost every time Barry hit Kongo he dropped him, same with Maynard and Edgar, Diaz and Daley was different but Daley hits like a truck and Nick was all but out of there. If they had all tapped to strikes we would have been robbed of some of the most epic comebacks in MMA history. There are instances where I agree with you though, Cyborg vs Finney being the primary example. That was terrible matchmaking and the ref or the corner should have stopped it after round 1 because it was clear that Finney was simply outclassed. I would have had no problem with a tap to strikes there, even though it doesn't fit my criteria of broken limbs etc.
     
    #177
  18. chaos_36 DOOM all capitals no trick spelling.

    chaos_36
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    It's obvious my post there needs a little clarification because you're the second person who's misconstrued what I was trying to say. I was saying you CAN'T tap in a street fight, if you're in a submission then you're going to get your shit broken unless shown some mercy which is unlikely, in MMA we have a rule to prevent that. Tapping to strikes in a street fight will likely get you killed, which is why I said I see no real life correlation. In MMA we have rules, regulations, referees and corner-men that should theoretically prevent any situation where a fighter has to tap from strikes. GSP/Serra for example would have been stopped a couple of seconds later but for whatever reason GSP preempted the referee's call. The amount of damage sustained in those few seconds would have been minimal at best but like I also said earlier, it's their body, their career and their decision. I'm just saying how I feel about it.
     
    #178
  19. chaos_36 DOOM all capitals no trick spelling.

    chaos_36
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    1. It's more about sportsmanship. Being caught in a choke and not tapping is kind of arrogant, it shows your opponent clearly got the better of you but you refused to acknowledge it. Doesn't cause disfigurement though you're right, I was talking about joint locks.

    2. I agree. That's up there with tapping to strikes too. Conor and Rumble come to mind with that example.
     
    #179
  20. AnotherOldGuy Purple Belt

    AnotherOldGuy
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    Fair enough, a quick Google shows you're correct, I've been using blacked out incorrectly. What I should have said is that when you're going unconscious you have no more chance of escaping strikes than when you're being choked out.

    We agree on why the refs aren't so worried about fighters passing out with chokes, and on why its problematic to wait for the ref to decide when a limb is going to break (though for youth judo the refs will make both calls if they feel its warranted even if the youth doesn't tap).

    We disagree on whether the ref is any better at telling if a fighter is going unconscious from strikes than they are at telling if a limb is breaking or a fighter is going under - I think its basically almost impossible to tell in all cases, which means I see no difference in tapping to strikes than to chokes or locks ... waiting for the ref is putting far too much trust in them.
     
    #180
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