Why do so many Americans value the Confederacy?

Cint said:
I guarantee these folks aren't from the South.
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How? Because there are no white supremacists from the South?
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WiolentOne said:
Let's talk about the effects of slavery and segregation. Maybe then you'll actually acknowledge all the problems amongst your people for once.
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My people? My people come from Jamaica and Panama. My people are immigrants. What exactly are the problems with college educated immigrants that raise college educated children that I should acknowledge? o_O

But we can certainly discuss slavery and segregation, if you'd like to do that too.
 
I don't think of slavery when I see the flag. I just think of the south, trucks, bbq, guys with beards etc.
 
lilelvis said:
I still believe that you make some broad assumptions about the modern south that have a "south is still racist" tone. I am simply telling you my experience, that is pretty vast, that the south (exception, Atlanta) is the least racist, and segregated, part of the nation that I have lived in. Blacks and whites in the south share a common history and, in many ways, culture.
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No, I make statements about the South that are close to accurate as I can make them. That they feel like "the south is still racist" isn't because I'm shading the statements that way, it's probably because when they're laid out neutrally, they still have the element to them.

You can have your personal experience but it's not necessarily reflective of the totality of events. There are plenty of people from the south who have a different opinion than you do on what the South is like.

Blacks and white in the South share a common history and culture that's true. But why do so many people stop short of truthfully exploring that common history. Which basically said that if you look a certain way, you have to do certain things or the people who look different from you will punish you either economically or physically. And what type of culture will that common history create? I mean that's just one part of it but when you're talking about the South, it's a pretty big part of it.

There was another thread where someone said that their grandfather from 1910's Arkansas never had any issues with black people and someone replied of course not, under the rules of 1910 Arkansas any black person who created issues with white people was probably in for a world of trouble. Black people had to be careful to not do anything that would be misconstrued as an issue. So the 1910's white guy, everyone got along. To the 1910's black guy, it was a daily exercise in self-preservation.

Now, I'm not mentioning that to say it's the current norm. I'm mentioning to show how a perception of things changes depending on what role you're being asked to perform. And perhaps enough people don't think about all of the roles everyone else must perform so that their life seem the way that it is.

Like a stay at home spouse who never realizes how much work goes into the other spouse's ability to pay the mortgage, they just like having a roof over their head.
 
panamaican said:
No, I make statements about the South that are close to accurate as I can make them. That they feel like "the south is still racist" isn't because I'm shading the statements that way, it's probably because when they're laid out neutrally, they still have the element to them.

You can have your personal experience but it's not necessarily reflective of the totality of events. There are plenty of people from the south who have a different opinion than you do on what the South is like.

Blacks and white in the South share a common history and culture that's true. But why do so many people stop short of truthfully exploring that common history. Which basically said that if you look a certain way, you have to do certain things or the people who look different from you will punish you either economically or physically. And what type of culture will that common history create? I mean that's just one part of it but when you're talking about the South, it's a pretty big part of it.

There was another thread where someone said that their grandfather from 1910's Arkansas never had any issues with black people and someone replied of course not, under the rules of 1910 Arkansas any black person who created issues with white people was probably in for a world of trouble. Black people had to be careful to not do anything that would be misconstrued as an issue. So the 1910's white guy, everyone got along. To the 1910's black guy, it was a daily exercise in self-preservation.

Now, I'm not mentioning that to say it's the current norm. I'm mentioning to show how a perception of things changes depending on what role you're being asked to perform. And perhaps enough people don't think about all of the roles everyone else must perform so that their life seem the way that it is.

Like a stay at home spouse who never realizes how much work goes into the other spouse's ability to pay the mortgage, they just like having a roof over their head.
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This is so true.....thats why I laugh when clowns in here says race relations are worse than ever. But I do get pissed off when several fox news presenters has said the same thing which is far worse than a clown on sherdog saying it.
 
panamaican said:
My people? My people come from Jamaica and Panama. My people are immigrants. What exactly are the problems with college educated immigrants that raise college educated children that I should acknowledge? o_O

But we can certainly discuss slavery and segregation, if you'd like to do that too.
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Sideshow Bob Marley is that you?
 
Gervinho said:
This is so true.....thats why I laugh when clowns in here says race relations are worse than ever. But I do get pissed off when several fox news presenters has said the same thing which is far worse than a clown on sherdog saying it.
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OBAMA RUINED RACE RELATIONS!


Trump - "There are some good nazis and the KKK are my biggest fans. Oh and if you're in Charlottesville be sure to check out the Trump Winery nearby. Planted in 1999 and nestled in the mountains, Trump Winery is Virginia's largest vineyard. It's perfect for events, weddings and wine tastings."
 
DynamicLoosener said:
France got their asses kicked in WW2 and their citizens still love their country. What is your point TS?
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France was invaded, and lost a short war. The Confederacy create an insurrection bent on destroying the union for the right to keep slaves.

Some people just identify with losers.
giphy.webp
 
I think the adoption of African slavery practices was most regrettable mistake in US history. There's nothing wrong with repenting/apologizing for it.

I think we need to acknowledge that the recent surge in racial radicalism on the left has nothing to do with slavery or the confederacy and that they are attacking its symbols so many years later to fabricate a false paradigm where their enemies are "former slave owners", rather than whites in general, the latter being reality. Allowing them to topple historical monuments is falling for this childish tactic.

I do believe Confederate history will become more relevant as regional secession becomes more desirable.
 
I think the South maintains Confederate symbols like building/town names, statues, their flag, and memorials as an act of defiance. Especially since a lot of the stuff popped up long after the war.
 
The confederate flag means a lot of different things to different people, but having traveled around the south, and, sort of, lived in the south for all my life, I see it as something that keeps the rural parts of the south down, prevents them from moving on.

In the metropolitan areas of the south it's mostly just seen as another bumper sticker like a Dallas Cowboys decal. In the rural parts of the south, especially in the areas that are struggling the most economically, it's seen as the marker of better times for poor whites. They clutch it so hard and cling to it and start to feel like their culture and way of life is under attack, when reality is their area is suffering because they have resisted moving on.

That was one major reason why they so desperately resisted ending slavery in civil war times, because their economy would need to change, and they decided that rather than changing, they should just keep clinging onto the old system.

So while immigrants come to America take shitty jobs and make sure their kids go to college for valuable degrees, the southern rural poor sit back and salute the confederate flag and blame the immigrants for coal not being valuable and factory jobs not paying well.

It's in the South's best interest to put the flags in a musuem and deal with the fact that they lost the civil war.

Also, I've never seen nor heard of union flag pride in the North, and I've been to a few of the major cities and drove around their rural areas.
 
DannyNL said:
I'm Canadian and not an expert on American history, but I'm just wondering why so many Americans feel so strongly about confederate stuff? Why such a strong obsession with a side that got their ass kicked in a war (I'd love to ask the same question to Neo Nazis).

How do they justify that Confederate stuff is not a symbol of slavery?
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The Confederacy was many things, among them racist. It's also the family heritage of a significant portion of this country. Should I still be pissed at Canada for the War of 1812? Canada tried to end this country.
 
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