Opinion Why do other workers support the corporate mentality?

[7437]

I am not talking about the employer. Can you please read my post?

he has a tough time with reading.

 

[superpunch]

Um, you chose investment banking -- the most competitive industry on Earth.

People are working insane hours because they want to get noticed and be the guy that gets the PE spot. Look how many analysts they're are. Look how many VPs you have. What makes you different than the million other guys that wanna be that VP?

They want that or they want those exit opportunities where eventually maybe they can work less and still make great money. And you gotta compete to get those.

You chose to work in the most competitive industry on Earth dominated by type A personalities.

That's like asking why Brian Ortega was too tough for his own good, willing to fight past the point he had any chance to win and it was bad for his health. If he wasn't, he never would have been a potential world champion anyways. If he gave up in a fight, his coaches would give up on him and choose someone tougher for that world class training opportunity. He's a fighter.

If you wanna work 9-5ish and make decent money go get a government job. 40-60 hours and a pretty good money, maybe be an engineer.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I have a hard time believing you were caught totally unaware by the culture surrounding investment banking. Did you not intern at all? I work construction and it’s a god damn fight for everything with everyone.

I have allot of friends that work construction. I wonder how the construction companies with a shitty culture survive.

The guys I knew that worked at the places where people were miserable, left to companies that treat their employees well. Construction employers are a dime a dozen. Workers actually do have leverage their, limited leverage, but some options at least.

I love how anti-PC construction shops are. Good luck telling those neanderthals what they can say

 

[MaxMMA]

Corporations have found a way to hurt their bottom line in their desperate attempts to milk every penny they can out of every asset they have, including human assets.

A lot of corporate people would laugh at this statement and tell me I know nothing of business, but the truth is most corporations can only think quarter to quarter and maximizing their profit in those quarters.

Most don't even consider the long term sustainability of their practices. Example: most corporations pay their employees the least amount of money they can while simultaneously providing the least amount of equipment/accommodations that they can for the employees to get the job done.

Short term it seems like a good idea to pay as little as possible for labor/equipment. Long term you have to hire and retrain new people year round and continue to repair/replace cheap equipment.

I'm honestly surprised that most corporations continue to practice business in this manner, but as long as the tax payer is there to bail out shitty companies I guess it will keep on rolling this way.

 

[usmctanker242]

I wish everyone would do the bit in bold.

I am unhappy because what everyone else is doing (or at least a good proportion of what people are doing) is impacting me. To give you an example - I felt genuinely sick two months ago and went to have a little lie down in the sick room for two or three times that week. To my horror, I found out at my mid yearly performance review that someone who I have never spoken to in my life and who is not even in my direct team has spoken to my boss about my "inappropriate attitude" towards work because this person thought I had slacked off. This person has never thought of asking me to clarify and when I confronted him about it he bitched to his other co-workers that I was rude and overly aggressive.

This isn't about acting like a woman - its about the fact that incidents like the above aren't isolated and people will throw you under the bus without any good, logical reason.



This is an example of what I'm talking about - i.e. "believe it or not but here are the rules and here's another group that follows the rules".

My response would be: ok...but, is that right approach? Is this how you should choose who to look toward to? <= these are questions I think should be asked.



Just because you have nothing else to live for doesn't mean you should support an environment of hostility or fakery. If anything, given the fact they spend so much time at work...shouldn't they be striving towards creating the best workplace possible?

My man (woman?) it sounds like you need to start your own company and apply your concepts of how the work climate should be and see how it works out. You have your own ideas about how things should be, regardless of how they truly are, so this might be the best solution for you.

Truthfully, I find it hard to believe that your boss took a 3rd parties word about your performance. I'd be willing to bet this is an easy way for your superior to give you a reasonable critique and shift the blame of the shitty stuff to someone else. You going and lying down during the work day in a sick room...is that normal? I've never even heard of companies having this kind of thing.

Overall sounds like your current job / company isn't the right one for you. Look elsewhere so you don't end up becoming one of those drones who hates their life.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Ha!

Are you 12?

I promise you getting invited to the right BBQ, matters way more then your work.

Not talking about hierarchies as in official positions within the company. I was talking about psychological hierarchies, in which competence is always the fundamental principle.

Also, making sure you get invited to the right BBQ is part of your job if you want to be successful.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Not talking about hierarchies as in official positions within the company. I was talking about psychological hierarchies, in which competence is always the fundamental principle.

Also, making sure you get invited to the right BBQ is part of your job if you want to be successful.

And I'm telling you, the work doesn't matter at all. Spend your time where it matters kissing the right ass.

 

[Hatake88]

My man (woman?) it sounds like you need to start your own company and apply your concepts of how the work climate should be and see how it works out. You have your own ideas about how things should be, regardless of how they truly are, so this might be the best solution for you.

The question I am asking is "WHY are things the way they are?"

Also, can you tell me what is wrong about my approach (beyond the fact that it is not the status quo)?

Truthfully, I find it hard to believe that your boss took a 3rd parties word about your performance. I'd be willing to bet this is an easy way for your superior to give you a reasonable critique and shift the blame of the shitty stuff to someone else. You going and lying down during the work day in a sick room...is that normal? I've never even heard of companies having this kind of thing.

Overall sounds like your current job / company isn't the right one for you. Look elsewhere so you don't end up becoming one of those drones who hates their life.

Why are you choosing to focus on the example itself rather than the problem the example is highlighting?

Why is your first reaction to my example skepticism?

I could tell you about how I had a flu the entire week (which at some point led to me having a fever) and, if it weren't so busy, I would have taken sick leave. However ,what I'm more interested in is how you've approached the question.

 

[Patrick Jane]

And I'm telling you, the work doesn't matter at all. Spend your time where it matters kissing the right ass.

I disagree.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I disagree.

Hey, some work environments aren't completely toxic. Perhaps their is still some competence where you work, instead of all cronyism.

 

[superpunch]

The question I am asking is "WHY are things the way they are?"

Also, can you tell me what is wrong about my approach (beyond the fact that it is not the status quo)?



Why are you choosing to focus on the example itself rather than the problem the example is highlighting?

Why is your first reaction to my example skepticism?

I could tell you about how I had a flu the entire week (which at some point led to me having a fever) and, if it weren't so busy, I would have taken sick leave. However ,what I'm more interested in is how you've approached the question.

Things work that way because you chose a job that pays $150k/ year right out of college with the potential to make millions in a few years. If you want a more relaxed, less cutthroat job, they exist but you knew what investment banking was going in.. What you're describing isn't normal corporate culture just like getting punched in the face isn't normal work culture. It's normal if you're a UFC fighter though. You chose a very niche job. If you want less hours and a less cutthroat environment, you should be a teacher, an engineer, a government worker, etc. I don't know why you're using investment banking as a general criticism of work culture? That's absurd.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

Company loyalty used to be a thing back in the day. Where if you performed well and stuck around you would be rewarded for your service with a life long job and benefits to go along with it. It blows my mind how 60 years ago many big corporations used to offer pension plans to the average worker.

At this point there's really no good reason to be loyal to a company because it just makes you have a disadvantage. No corporate entity is willing to train workers anymore. They expect you have the skills already, even for entry level jobs. Pay raises are basically capped to a point where you have to jump to another company to get a big pay raise. Because of globalism they are willing to fire you on a dime if they can find a cheaper person from across the world to fill your shoes. Then throw in college degree inflation and it's no surprise.

 

[superpunch]

I dont disagree, but leverage isnt extinct. If you have something people want (applied skill, resource, knowledge) then you are valuable. If you are valuable you have leverage

Investment banking, especially entry level, is also what it is because it's a low or no-skilled job. It's supposedly finance but an engineer, or probably even a woman's study major with a few math and Excel classes, can pick it up as easily as a finance major can. It pays $150K entry level. It potentially pays millions in a few years. Now why would a low or no-skilled job do that? By getting the most intelligent, competitive people to do it. It's a niche culture for a reason.

On the other hand, even entry level engineers have some kind of leverage over there employers: their skills. Only engineering majors have those skills, and they can leverage that in smaller or mid sized markets where there aren't gluts of STEM majors. Just like investment bankers can eventually leverage a very rare 2-3 years of investment banking experience for incredible exit opportunities that pay millions of dollars or less demanding jobs like consulting that pay hundreds of thousands for their rare experience.

Edit:

Going into investment banking and complaining about the work culture's hours and cutthroat competition is like..

Going into the Marines and complaining about the work place's focus on killing. Going into the UFC and complaining that you get punched in the face at work. Going into engineering and complaining about the work place's focus on math. And then generalizing that to all jobs.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Hey guys

This year is my first in the corporate world and, to be honest, I am a bit shell shock. Not just by the work but more so by the people.

I just can't grasp why people choose to act the way they do and how they manage to find any enjoyment out of it.

For example, let's start with long hours. From an employer's POV, I can understand why they want employees to work as long as possible (to maximise profits). But, if you aren't an equity partner, then why does it matter what time someone in a different team leaves or if someone wants to leave a little "early" after they've finished all their work? Why are people - especially junior staff like myself - so proud of how many hours they've worked? Why is it that people "compete" in such stupidity when all this does is grind on their own mental and physical health?

This feeds into a central theme of the lack of kindness in the corporate world (kindness both to yourself and to others). As children, we are taught lessons like "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't stay it", "just focus on yourself, not others", "be brave and speak up when something is wrong" and " try to put yourself into other people's shoes". These aren't awe-inspiring concepts at all (and are fundamental to creating a safe and comfortable workspace for everyone) yet people don't abide by them.

As adults, we go around constantly monitoring each other, talking smack about each other (always laughing about the "what" instead of asking "why") and - when people see others get bullied - they turn away. Its just...wrong. And the most frustrating part about all of this is that others don't seem to know or care. "Its always been this way" and "that's the rules" aren't valid explanations.There is a better way to do things if only people will put themselves and those around them first rather than profit margins - because, at the end of the day, wealth isn't just monetary.

I can already see the responses calling me doe-eyed, naive etc. but its just terrible for me coming out of a smaller university (where things tend to be quieter and more honest) to my current workplace where a large majority of people seem to be fake and/or mean-spirited. The worse part is that I work with some of the supposedly smartest people in my country...yet is killing yourself and others around you really the intelligent thing to do? I've meet some incredibly narrow-minded people in my life...some of which include the Oxford/Cambridge/NYU/Yale graduates I work with day to day.

I just don't understand their mentality and, as unmanly as it sounds, it hurts me to see people treating themselves and others like that.

I am an investment banker btw.

P.S. My question is in the thread title.

You are absolutely on the right track. Your judgments are sound. Don't be dissuaded by those who say otherwise. Their institutional indoctrination leaves them virtually incapable of offering any rational analysis. People like you give me some hope for the future of the US.

 

[superpunch]

It blows my mind how 60 years ago many big corporations used to offer pension plans to the average worker.

Because the population was growing massively every generation -- ponzie schemes work when there's always a new "investor" to replace the old ones. When the "investor" base gets smaller, they go broke.

They expect you have the skills already, even for entry level jobs.

People that go to good colleges or do trade school do have these skills. The problem is that many people major in woman's studies or major in outdated STEM curriculum at one of the thousands of shitty schools.

Then throw in college degree inflation and it's no surprise.

Like medical cost inflation, this is just an American thing.

 

[superpunch]

It is clear to me that corporate America as a rule, would rather have know-nothings who make half what a competent and educated person would.

That only applies to low skilled corporate work like administrative jobs and back office positions that function as support roles; the support only has to be just good enough to work. As long as it just works, it doesn't really make a difference.

You think Google would rather have half-paid know-nothings than competent and educated computer scientists?

You think a stock brokerage would rather have half-paid autistic people than outgoing and super socially skilled type A personalities?

Of course if your only ambition is to be in a support role, you're going to get paid like support. Support extra skills = no extra revenue for the company.

You need a skill that contributes to the company's bottom line. Then extra skill = extra bottom line for the company = more money for you.

 

[panamaican]

On the brag about work component, I read an interesting take.

People brag about how much they work because they don't have real accomplishments to brag about. If you've done impressive stuff, you don't need to talk about how much time you work because you can talk about what you've actually done. This resonates with me because my work goals have always been to work less without hurting my income, not work more (right now I'm proud about helping my wife work 45% fewer hours but make 30% more money than 3 years ago - now we need to get that time down further).

Similar thing with networking. If you've done something worth talking about, you don't need to network aggressively. You go about your business and you'll meet people who either want to work with you or you want/need to work with. Going into random rooms and meeting random people just to "network" is a poor use of your time. Do something useful and your network will grow on its own.

 

[panamaican]

Also, productivity declines as work hours increase. Someone working 70 hours/week has a productivity rate similar to someone working 15 hours/week (still looking for that quote). Primarily, it seems that either productivity drops as people become tired and/or, after long hours, people start making mistakes that cost more time to fix that it cost to make them. Effectively eroding any benefit from the extended hours and some of the normal hours as well.

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs201/projects/crunchmode/econ-hours-productivity.html
https://hbr.org/2015/08/the-research-is-clear-long-hours-backfire-for-people-and-for-companies

 

[Headkicktoleg]

sound like you work for a shitty company.

 

[Scott Parker 27]

Hey guys

This year is my first in the corporate world and, to be honest, I am a bit shell shock. Not just by the work but more so by the people.

I just can't grasp why people choose to act the way they do and how they manage to find any enjoyment out of it.

For example, let's start with long hours. From an employer's POV, I can understand why they want employees to work as long as possible (to maximise profits). But, if you aren't an equity partner, then why does it matter what time someone in a different team leaves or if someone wants to leave a little "early" after they've finished all their work? Why are people - especially junior staff like myself - so proud of how many hours they've worked? Why is it that people "compete" in such stupidity when all this does is grind on their own mental and physical health?

This feeds into a central theme of the lack of kindness in the corporate world (kindness both to yourself and to others). As children, we are taught lessons like "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't stay it", "just focus on yourself, not others", "be brave and speak up when something is wrong" and " try to put yourself into other people's shoes". These aren't awe-inspiring concepts at all (and are fundamental to creating a safe and comfortable workspace for everyone) yet people don't abide by them.

As adults, we go around constantly monitoring each other, talking smack about each other (always laughing about the "what" instead of asking "why") and - when people see others get bullied - they turn away. Its just...wrong. And the most frustrating part about all of this is that others don't seem to know or care. "Its always been this way" and "that's the rules" aren't valid explanations.There is a better way to do things if only people will put themselves and those around them first rather than profit margins - because, at the end of the day, wealth isn't just monetary.

I can already see the responses calling me doe-eyed, naive etc. but its just terrible for me coming out of a smaller university (where things tend to be quieter and more honest) to my current workplace where a large majority of people seem to be fake and/or mean-spirited. The worse part is that I work with some of the supposedly smartest people in my country...yet is killing yourself and others around you really the intelligent thing to do? I've meet some incredibly narrow-minded people in my life...some of which include the Oxford/Cambridge/NYU/Yale graduates I work with day to day.

I just don't understand their mentality and, as unmanly as it sounds, it hurts me to see people treating themselves and others like that.

I am an investment banker btw.

P.S. My question is in the thread title.

Welcome to the adult world, I guess I should call you sir now. I definitely agree with you that it sucks, but in my 25 years of working I have figured out that the only way around it is to run your own business. I did that and it is a ton of work versus working for another entity. The main rule is, we are all playing the same game, you just have to figure out how to stay towards the center of the pack and live by principles that allow you to look at yourself in the mirror. Read the 48 laws of power by Robert greene