Why do Muay Thai stylists that go into Glory refuse to adjust their pace to keep up?

[FokaiMuayThai]

It's great to see in a straight Muay Thai match, but it's It's actually a little sad to watch under Glory rules. They get hit with so many combos and still want to play the Muay Thai "I'm not hurt" move , wait and pot shot game. You see them hitting pads at the same slow pace with low volume power shots like they would fight in a Muay Thai match.

Examples:
Pinto Bros
Sitmonchai
Various lower tier guys who are MT stylists (can't remember off the top of my head)

The European fighters eat them up with combos and aggression.

I think the only successful ones have been the higher level Thais with lots of fight experience/IQ (Sitthichai, Keaw, Petpanomrung -sort of-) Simon Marcus and Sanny Dahlbeck. But these guys obviously contemplated the type of fighting they were engaging in and adjusted.

 

[Will Samuelson]

Inreresting question and observation.
Maybe the mental block needs breaking by training and that habit is hard to break. It surely can't be stubborness? Because these guys are in the KB circuit to make money and that comes through winning.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

you can't just flip a switch and go on and off from muay thai style to K-1 style and vice versa. these guys train in a certain way and are used to it. if they're good they make it work under kickboxing rules if they're not it doesn't work.

Kaew, Sittichai and Petpanomrung are great fighters; Yodkhunpon and the Pinto Bros. are not.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

I guess my real question is why the hell is Glory keeping them around if they're obviously fighting horribly and not a good fit for the style.

 

[j123]

Could be from habit, and possibly conserving their tank.

We all know in DKB most of the combo is fluff with the last or 2nd last strike being the main kill strike. So they might take into consideration to just deal with the last one, but decision-wise its bad, you end up losing on compu strikes

 

[AbeRudder]

Yodkunpon is having trouble in muay thai these days as well. He was good as a featherweight in muay thai but he never adjusted to the weight climb.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

I actually think this last fight against beztati was one of sitmonchai's better fights. He was willing to get into exchanges where if it were against a lesser opponent might've made a KO, he could've kicked more before/after his punches, but he's getting better at this style. Seems like Glory is letting him adjust fight by fight.

I'm more talking about the pinto Bros. They make me cringe.

 

[mikiemike87]

I find it strange too, when repetition kicks is part of every respectable muay thai training program. Why don't more fighters look to Baukaw's success with his kick spam K-1 days, and shutting down the punch range with clinching. Seems like a straight forward plan to me. Even Saenchai's Glory fight didn't look like he fought much differently, opting to not oblige the combo heavy punch range for long.

 

[AbeRudder]

I find it strange too, when repetition kicks is part of every respectable muay thai training program. Why don't more fighters look to Baukaw's success with his kick spam K-1 days, and shutting down the punch range with clinching. Seems like a straight forward plan to me. Even Saenchai's Glory fight didn't look like he fought much differently, opting to not oblige the combo heavy punch range for long.

Saenchai basically fights once a month, I doubt he does any specific preparations for his opponents and the Glory fight was a one time thing.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Well Sittichai managed to go in and take a title pretty easily sans the RVR robbery.

Petpanomrung should be FW champ if he wasn't robbed. He handled RVR's combinations no problem.

Who are all these other MT guys that supposedly can't handle combinations?

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Who are all these other MT guys that supposedly can't handle combinations?

The same ones Dekkers wrecked when he became fighter of the year in Thailand.

 

[Snubnoze707]

The same ones Dekkers wrecked when he became fighter of the year in Thailand.

Gotcha. Back when Thais were first introduced to punches, a game changing moment.

 

[Yodsanan]

I find it strange too, when repetition kicks is part of every respectable muay thai training program. Why don't more fighters look to Baukaw's success with his kick spam K-1 days, and shutting down the punch range with clinching. Seems like a straight forward plan to me. Even Saenchai's Glory fight didn't look like he fought much differently, opting to not oblige the combo heavy punch range for long.

Because Yodkhunpon isn't a good kicker and there is more to controlling your opponent with kicks then just "spamming kicks".

 

[mikiemike87]

Because Yodkhunpon isn't a good kicker and there is more to controlling your opponent with kicks then just "spamming kicks".

Obviously theres much more to Buakaws success in k1, but the point was the thais already practice a high volume of kicks so volume and conditioning shouldn't be an issue if they truly wanted to up their strike volume to win kickboxing matches. As questioning their kick conditioning was put into question in an earlier post.

Controlling the centerline and kick range with a left sided heavy approach ala Buakaws jab/teep/switch flow did wonders in high volume and frequency against the combination heavy Zambidis and Masato. On top of a general superior dominance in the clinch that virtually every thai fighter possesses over your common kickboxing, used proactively to stuff and stymie the punch range. This has been covered ad nauseum in several striking breakdown videos and I didn't feel I needed to lay out the entire kicking blueprint used by Buakaw.

Although Yodkhunpon isn't great by stadium muay thai standards, I'd argue he'd do really well given a tactical tweaking. He'd still beat most kickboxers if he did most of his work in the kicking and clinching ranges.

 

[Yodsanan]

Although Yodkhunpon isn't great by stadium muay thai standards, I'd argue he'd do really well given a tactical tweaking. He'd still beat most kickboxers if he did most of his work in the kicking and clinching ranges.

Is he a better kicker then most kickboxers? Yes. Is he a better fighter then top kickboxers and can force his kicking game onto his opponent? No.


It's not like Yodkhunpon doesn't know what Buakaw and Sittichai do, to be successful in Kickboxing, he just isn't as good as them to apply that in his fights.

 

[AbeRudder]

Yodkunpon's timing, fight iq and distance management are totally off currently, that's not a kickboxing specific issue he struggles against mid tier farangs at the moment in muay thai too. He was good about 4 years ago or so but ever since he moved up in weight he's just looked lost.

 

[AbeRudder]

Although Yodkhunpon isn't great by stadium muay thai standards, I'd argue he'd do really well given a tactical tweaking. He'd still beat most kickboxers if he did most of his work in the kicking and clinching ranges.

Varga kept him at range and picked him apart. Yodkunpon is a pressure fighter/brawler not a fimeu technician.

 

[mikiemike87]

Yodkhunpon shortcomings tie back into my original point that muay thai stylists seem to oblige the boxing a little more than they should. Especially the Sitmonchai style.

I'm basing my opinions less on the perceived potential of Yodkhunpon, and more on my perceived shortcoming of muay thai stylists in kickboxing in general. Admittedly, I stopped following kickboxing closely after Buakaw and Souwer left, so the last matches I've seen are Sittichai's and Saenchai's for obvious muay thai favoritism reasons. I'm recalling Buakaw getting "dropped" by Masato, knocked out by Sato, and Saenchai getting punched a surprisingly amount of times in the face obliging the punch range for too long. So I harken back to Buakaw's utter dominance fighting very much like a frenetic thai, and Saenchais follow up kickboxing match looking more similar to his usual style. I don't know the in and outs of kickboxing, it's not my preferred striking sport, but that's what I've noticed is a viable kickboxing strategy to focus more on the ranges they spent most of their lives training in. And it ends up looking like a faster paced muay thai fight to be honest, with a bit better head movement. The original point was never to claim Yodkhunpon could be an elite kickboxer, simply he and other Mt stylists could be more successful if they maximized the tools they have that are clearly superior to most kickboxers.

 

[Kanka]

Superbon, Sittichai and Petpanomrung all had boxing training which reflects the way they fight. Crisp punches and in my opinion, superior to the dutch stylists. Combined with the kicks and knees of the thais this style is very effective.

Buakaw had good hands but you can tell he wasn't training extensively with a boxing trainer in his K-1 days. He relied on his timing, distance and knockout power and was superior to most of his opponents but this got exploited by masato who had more crisp punches.

I can't say much about Kaew but stylistically his punching game is close to thai style. Alot of thai style heavy punches but he pulls it off so well. Yodsanklai also pullef off this style very well but he got robbed against Souwer imo.

In training, Yodkhunpon trains his hands neither like a thai nor a boxer. It's mostly alot of power combinations. This will work against a mid-level muay thai fighter but will definitely be exploited by a dutch stylist who not only trains combinations, but also incorporate various counter attacks. Most kickboxing stylists can probably exploit this style.

As for the other fighters i'm not sure which ones you are refering to? I know some thais have a habit of clinching instinctically but can't remember who they were.

Edit: yeah Thongchai had a good pace but he couldn't handle the combinations of Groenhart. Not sure if it was because of stylistic issues or because he was fat and unmotivated.

 

[Enriko davidson]

I guess my real question is why the hell is Glory keeping them around if they're obviously fighting horribly and not a good fit for the style.

Maybe propaganda. To make thai style look bad. I think the matchmaker cor hemmers was very close to ramon dekkers and has this obsession with making the dutch style seem superior to thai style. That's why some of the biggest robberies in Glory have been against thai stylists. If you had superbon replace yodkhunpon and kaew replace leo pinto it would be embarrassing for the 65/70kg glory divisions.

You cannot make this thread based off pinto brothers and yodkhunpon. Thats like bringing an average Dutch fighter to Glory who keeps losing so you turn around and question the dutch style. Its not his style. Hes just an average fighter.