Why do Central Asian Countries produce such great Wrestlers and Fighters

[Genki Sudo]

How have they done disproportionately well? They may well have, but you're falling prey to basic selection bias. People remember good fighters, not the trove of less memorable ones who wash out. And Dagestan, for example, has its fair share of unremarkable fighters.

Obviously, living a clean life is beneficial, but there are plenty of athletes where self-destructive habits are part of them. The same obsession that makes them great fighters can easily be a vice. That's why I don't put much stock on morals and such being the major factor when we're looking at the sport systematically. I'll also add that one of the classic traits of great fighters is the willingness to do everything possible to win...aka cheating. Think GSP cleverly grabbing Bisping's shorts so hard he broke his cup.

Faith can be an anchor, as can many other things, some fighters need isolation, some need to blow off steam. It's reductive to say religion in of itself is a major determining factor of athletic success. Since you metnioned the spartan lifestyle, one of the classic challenges many religious Cubans have faced after defecting and trunign pro is not being able to cope wtih the newfound freedom and riches. And you can't tell me Guillermo Rigondeaux was less disciplined than Khabib in his prime.

Dagestan is a small region. Is has done disproportionately well. They have produced not only a string of world class mma practitioners but also wrestlers... Hell they even have the odd world champion... All from the population sample the size of a small American city.
You're arguing for the sake of it. Again i never said religion is the be all anr nd alll... It is however as a guiding principle useful to mma.

 

[avenue94]

Dagestan is a small region. Is has done disproportionately well. They have produced not only a string of world class mma practitioners but also wrestlers... Hell they even have the odd world champion... All from the population sample the size of a small American city.

Again, this is classic selection bias. Dagestan produces great wrestlers because they have a culture of it backed up by the economic and training infrastructure to develop athletes who wrestle. There are loads of Dagestani exports who washed out that you aren't considering. Do you understand what survivorship bias is? Because that's also what you are seeing.

Also not sure why you are comparing Dagestan to a small American city...it's a country of 3 million. There are plenty of US states that punch above their weight in combat sports, even if not to the extent of Dagestan in terms of pure population.

You're arguing for the sake of it. Again i never said religion is the be all anr nd alll... It is however as a guiding principle useful to mma.

Again, this is bad stats. You should seriously educate yourself on the basics of stats if you're going to make such broad claims.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

You mean most fighters from the region whose benefactors are hardly true believers and known for excess? I don't really follow this train of logic. There are many religions that demand sacrafice and discpline in various ways, some less stringent, some more stringent, than whatever a "true believers" idea of Islam is.

I'll note that even Khabib, who was no doubt spectactularly dedicated in training, was horrific at making weight, which comes down to discipline and planning. Ditto with Islam, who has had close shaves on the scale. Does the discipline only apply to training camp but not the weight cut?

The North remembers.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Something worth considering with the Dagestanis is that you only get to see the standouts here in North America. The Parker Porter's and Ruan Potts' don't get invited to the big shows out here. They also all seem to come from one specific family so that no doubt plays into it as well.

But when you look at the legends they've produced and compare it to their population, it certainly would seem that there's something else at play here too.

 

[Genki Sudo]

Again, this is classic selection bias. Dagestan produces great wrestlers because they have a culture of it backed up by the economic and training infrastructure to develop athletes who wrestle. There are loads of Dagestani exports who washed out that you aren't considering. Do you understand what survivorship bias is

.

Because that's also what you are seeing.

Also not sure why you are comparing Dagestan to a small American city...it's a country of 3 million. There are plenty of US states that punch above their weight in combat sports, even if not to the extent of Dagestan in terms of pure population.

Again, this is bad stats. You should seriously educate yourself on the basics of stats if you're going to make such broad claims.

And again... They have produced a disproportionate amount of successful athletes from khabib in mma, sudalev in wrestling to beterbiev in boxing. All from a small area. And yes their faith assists them. It gives them focus and clarity and structure. No one said its the primary or sole reason lol. No ome needs education from u. I never said no us state did similar. I merely pointed to Dagestans success.

You seem to think that this is 'either /or' and thats sad.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

Something worth considering with the Dagestanis is that you only get to see the standouts here in North America. The Parker Porter's and Ruan Potts' don't get invited to the big shows out here. They also all seem to come from one specific family so that no doubt plays into it as well.

But when you look at the legends they've produced and compare it to their population, it certainly would seem that there's something else at play here too.

It's 100% Islam. Nothing else. They just started doing body locks right after circumcision.

 

[Your Two Braincells]

Plenty of countries like that without producing anything.

It’s discipline that comes with Islam. But posters here won’t accept that.

If what you were saying were true, the billions of non caucasian muslims from the middle east would’ve already ran through every single organisation but yet thats not the case. It’s why they all piggyback off of the success of the fighters coming from a very small region like Dagestan with a population of few million.

 

[HHJ]

Hard people,less distractions. Not that hard to figure out.
As jiri said in Europe "there alot of pussymans"

Not so much over where let's say Shavkat is from. His sister could probably beat you all up.

 

[avenue94]

And again... They have produced a disproportionate amount of successful athletes from khabib in mma, sudalev in wrestling to beterbiev in boxing.

Yes...because of an infrastructure in place to develop great athletes and support them. It's effectively economics.

All from a small area.

As does Cuba in boxing, as does Samoa or other countries in rugby, etc. etc. Again, you seem to not understand how basic statistical analysis works.

You seem to think that this is 'either /or' and thats sad.

The question of this thread is why do certain parts of the world have so many great fighters. Why would you bring up like a top 5-10 reason and ignore the actual top reasons. It makes no sense. But you do you.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

It's 100% Islam. Nothing else. They just started doing body locks right after circumcision.

Muzzies don't mandate circumcision.

These guys, on the other hand...

 

[Genki Sudo]

Yes...because of an infrastructure in place to develop great athletes and support them. It's effectively economics.

As does Cuba in boxing, as does Samoa or other countries in rugby, etc. etc. Again, you seem to not understand how basic statistical analysis works.

The question of this thread is why do certain parts of the world have so many great fighters. Why would you bring up like a top 5-10 reason and ignore the actual top reasons. It makes no sense. But you do you.

And again u misrepresent what people are saying. No one said being muslim give you the blueprint bto mma success. For the Dagestanis it does worknin synergy with their training. The abstinence band avoiding excess... Let alone the mental strength I lt gives them... Regardless of whether u believe or dont.

And again they have done extremely well

 

[fica]

If what you were saying were true, the billions of non caucasian muslims from the middle east would’ve already ran through every single organisation but yet thats not the case. It’s why they all piggyback off of the success of the fighters coming from a very small region like Dagestan with a population of few million.

Well watch out now and I am serious some of nuslim countries might take mma serious as well

 

[fica]

Yes...because of an infrastructure in place to develop great athletes and support them. It's effectively economics.

As does Cuba in boxing, as does Samoa or other countries in rugby, etc. etc. Again, you seem to not understand how basic statistical analysis works.

The question of this thread is why do certain parts of the world have so many great fighters. Why would you bring up like a top 5-10 reason and ignore the actual top reasons. It makes no sense. But you do you.

What did new Zealand win. S Africa won rugby world cup

 

[Doctor Grudge]

They have good amateur sports infrastructure, a culture of wrestling, and people join wrestling/martial arts schools to avoid joining gangs and shit in Dagestan.

Not that difficult to understand really. There are tiny regions in America that produce a ton of wrestlers too. Iowa has the same population as Dagestan and it is often considered a hot bed for wrestlers.


As for the other central asian countries - it is a mix of folkstyle wrestling culture and USSR sports infrastructure.

 

[marvinparsons]

If you have 3 million people dedicated to Wrestling/MMA as their #1 sporting priority it ends up being the same as a country of 300 million people where Wrestling/MMA is the #40 sporting priority.

Then you factor in that the country where it is low priority doesn't attract the best athletes, it gets the dregs, and it favours the 3 million country even more since they get the cream of the crop.

Rugby is a great example. NZ has a tiny population compared to France/England (5 million to 60-85 million) and France/England do have more registered rugby players (double or triple even). But in France/England rugby is the #5-#10 sport, so it gets more total athletes, but not the cream of the crop. NZ gets every single top athlete in NZ. If there is a genetic freak they are playing rugby. Steve Adams in the NBA: played rugby, not good enough. If there is a genetic freak in France they could do any number of things other than rugby, soccer being a much better option in terms of fame/pay/availability. And NZ has crushed France/England at rugby, historically. The talent pool has been staggering at times.

It's the exact same shit in Dagestan. It is the only place where wrestling and now MMA are the #1 sport. Even in the USA wrestling is way down the totem pole and even if you wrestle you probably don't want to pursue MMA as a career.

I'm in Canada and I have know of four people, friends of friends type shit, that did some local MMA. All of them had failed out of multiple sports (ice hockey, football, lacrosse, rugby etc.) before they ever thought about doing MMA. Those aren't the best athletes, they are the left overs.

 

[Gigacardio]

If only Canada/the U.S. were more like Afghanistan, Chechnya, and Pakistan. No leftism "there." Maybe one day, if we are lucky, we'll be able to live just like Afghanis.

So you're under the impression that the left is responsible for the US' FORMER success (it's in freefall atm)?
The West should be more like it was a few decades ago, not like Afghanistan and Chechnya....duhhh.

 

[Gigacardio]

What's the throw in your AV ? Harai Goshi ? Hane Goshi ?

I don't know...unfortunately. I love throws but I've never trained in them...I plan on taking up Jeet Kune Do or Arnis instead.

 

[Gigacardio]

You should see what happens when the girly westerners fight Muslim countries... those manly Muslims dominate lmao

The West's technological and economic superiority won't last for much longer considering the state of our societies. And in any case, we were talking about physical fighting here and the UFC fighters from the Caucasus are whooping the asses of the western ones a lot more than they are losing to them.

 

[marvinparsons]

So you're under the impression that the left is responsible for the US' FORMER success (it's in freefall atm)?

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about or how it relates to fighters from Dagestan being good at wrestling.

 

[Gigacardio]

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about or how it relates to fighters from Dagestan being good at wrestling.

Then you're not capable of following a simple train of thought and argument. Read my first post in this thread again.