Why are leftist Jews so conservative when it comes to Israel ?

[bigbangspiritbomb]

Leftists progressives like Dershowitz constantly promote progressive policy here in the US like compassionate immigration, diversity of cultures, beliefs, and religion. But when it comes to Israel, he and others are hawkish; demanding a strong military, harshly enforced borders, propagation of nationalism, and a high sense of religious collectivism.

This is the same for most leftists Jews worldwide where they promote liberalism at home, but push for strong conservative nationalism for Israel. Does anyone else not see the tactic at play here ? This is nothing new. The Khazar bolshevik Jews of Russia created socialism to destroy Russian nationalism in order to control the nation with an iron clad fist, but were more than willing to promote their own into business and media posts.

The agenda is to push an anti-in group mentality for the non-Jewish population, but being highly pro-in group for themselves.

This is not a conspiracy, it is out there front and center. Kevin McDonald wrote a fantastic book called The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements. I recommend the read.

The problem isn't patriotic, practicing Jews. The problem is bolshevik minded zionists who still are practicing this destructive policy.

Its called hypocrisy. Israel has a license to kill with respect to Islamaphobia and walls around the country. Americans are racist and bigots when proposing the exact samething.

Imagine, if Germany had a wall around their country right now, cock suckers running down Christians in snow plows would be getting shot by the thousands.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

NIMBY is strong in those ones

 

[Snake_Plissken]

To be fair, Soros does push progressive agendas in Israel as well.

Is he funding the search for ''new'' black jew isolated villages across africa and sending them to israel? if so he isnt as bad as peoples say.

 

[Snake_Plissken]

The same reason Jews want multiculturalism everywhere but Israel. Same reason soros pushes "progressive" agendas everywhere but Israel. Same reason they have been banned from countless countries throughout history

would bang

 

[Oiler]

You're proving my point further. Israel and Jordan are on friendly terms, furthermore, Israel can destroy the Jordanian military within a matter of days. A hypothetical attack from Jordan is not a credible threat. That's like the US making policy decisions on the basis of possible attack from Mexico.

If Israel withdraws from the West Bank (true withdrawal, not sanctions and blockades) then terror attacks will cease to become a realistic threat. Simply because the Palestinians powers that be would have too much to lose at that point. Least of which is their credibility.

And supposing they do launch attacks, Israel still has the power to EASILY re-occupy, annex, whatever they want with the West Bank. The "threat of terror" is a total smokescreen for the occupation, they want the land.

I get the intention of the mexico point, but its just not a realistic comparison.

Anyway, There is simply no evidence that if israel capitulates, terror activity will magically cease....its a nice thought and MAYBE over decades if there is more oppty for economic propsperity, radical elements will lose their footing

But to casually ignore the very real loss of life that would absolutely occur if israel just "butted out" is idealistic, at best.

And what do you think would happen if israel just left, and a terror attack occured? Who would get the blame and suffer? An infant state and its ppl.

So because giving up the land outright is risky, then holding it becomes rational, in a sense for now. In the long run, it ceases to be as rational in so far as the conditions create increasingly fertile grounds for new additonal radicals.

In any case, i respect your point of view. This is a real mess and the next time a window for peace opens i sincerely hope it can be taken.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I am not so sure that is true. Israeli Jews seem more religious as a collective whole than American Jews, and the data seems to support that conclusion. Even the large amount of Hilonim (Secular Israeli Jews) are more observant and believing in God than many Reform Jews.

And Israeli Jewish youths are more religious than their parents and the Israeli youth who are religious is growing while the Jewish youth numbers decrease and their religiousness or Jewish identity diminishes.

What Finkelstein means by "more Jewish than Israelis" is that they're more hysterical and fanatical about their support for Israeli aggression. Apparently, even in Israel there is a large group of people that either outright oppose their state's aggression, or at least question it a little bit.

But the American, "warmongers from Martha's Vineyard"-type Jews are 100% behind it.

 

[moosaev]

a

I get the intention of the mexico point, but its just not a realistic comparison.

Anyway, There is simply no evidence that if israel capitulates, terror activity will magically cease....its a nice thought and MAYBE over decades if there is more oppty for economic propsperity, radical elements will lose their footing

But to casually ignore the very real loss of life that would absolutely occur if israel just "butted out" is idealistic, at best.

And what do you think would happen if israel just left, and a terror attack occured? Who would get the blame and suffer? An infant state and its ppl.

So because giving up the land outright is risky, then holding it becomes rational, in a sense for now. In the long run, it ceases to be as rational in so far as the conditions create increasingly fertile grounds for new additonal radicals.

In any case, i respect your point of view. This is a real mess and the next time a window for peace opens i sincerely hope it can be taken.

One of the root causes of the impasse is that Israel (and you) view ending the occupation as "capitulation". And therefore its become a game of dick measuring and posturing to some degree. The reason this crisis hasn't been solved is because solving it requires an abundance of risk and magnanimity from all sides, but one side will surely have to sacrifice more. Palestinians are a broken people. Israel is a prosperous and militarily strong country with a vibrant economy, they can afford to take risks to save lives and make the grander gestures. Its only the petty mindedness of local politics (as displayed in the bold text above) and old grievances that prevent any real progress. Netanyahu is a small, petty man with a lot of ambition but no vision. And the Israeli people, bearing in mind their own history of dispossession and oppression, should really be quite ashamed at the callousness they display toward the Palestinians. Either way, Israel is free to make their own decisions, but I'd rather my tax $ not subsidize their crimes.

 

[jeffk]

A guy I know posted a version of this Facebook today.

-------------------------------
People often ask what types of criticisms of Israel legitimate are and what criticisms are not, so I'll post examples of each.

Legit type criticisms of Israel. They are based upon Israeli policies. Like every nation, its policies can be evaluated and criticized.

Examples:

* Israel's reckless expansion beyond the 1949 armistice lines is a strategic and moral error, imperiling its status as a Jewish and democratic state

* Arbitrary arrests of children in J+S/West Bank need to stop

* The IDF needs to do whatever it can to avoid and reduce collateral damage and unnecessary civilian deaths

* The return of the Jews to their ancestral homeland, while legitimate, was flawed in its execution

* Price tag attacks, kidnappings, etc are a crime

* Israel must address the concerns of the Ethiopian Jewish community
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shit criticisms of Israel. These are attempts to try to delegitimize the state of Israel and go nowhere. They may be good for trolling but no much else.

* The Jewish state is the root cause of all of the Middle East's problems and why the US is hated in the Middle East.

* The Jews should have set up a state in Germany/Poland/Argentina/the United States/Siberia instead. This also sometimes manifests itself as "Jews need to get the hell out of Palestine and go home to Germany, Poland, Russia, etc" (first of all, after centuries of telling them to 'go back to Palestine', it would be pretty obnoxious to tell Jews decades after the re-establishment of Israel that they need to leave again. How realistic would it have been for Jews to establish a state upon that continent after enduring two millennia of European racism?

* The Jews have been away from the Middle East for too long, so their indigenous status is null and void. They are white Europeans.

* Ashkenazi Jews are not really descended from the ancient Israelites, they are white Europeans who converted to Judaism (it is a blatantly obvious attempt to delegitimize Israel's existence by portraying Jewish returnees as "foreign colonial occupiers whose only connection to the land is religious")

* The Zionist lobby is hyper-powerful and controls the US government/the UN/the entire world (see: Protocols of the Elders of Zion)

* Israel is a settler colonial state built on land theft and colonization of the land's true indigenous people: the Palestinians - Jews are indigenous to Israel. Centuries spent in exile doesn't change that. The Palestinian refugee crisis is more complex: some were expelled, some left to avoid conflict before the war and some left out of fear during the war.

* Jews/Israelis are treating Palestinians the same way Nazis treated them. Israel are acting like Nazis.

* Israel is a white supremacist state, and Zionism is racism

* Jesus, Mary, Moses, King David, etc were Palestinians

* There was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem

 

[HamPhan]

Is your friend's last name Eichmann?

 

[Gunny]

TBH I think there is very little you can criticize given the region of utter madness they're in. If they weren't constantly besieged with threats of extermination or being driven into the sea by multiple enemy nations on all sides AND within their own borders then I might find it within me to get upset about a government taking some land to build apartments. As things stand, it just doesn't seem that high a priority.

 

[grimballer]

Funny how most "shit criticism" examples are also true.

You really need to be a true shill to think otherwise

 

[seiger]

A guy I know posted a version of this Facebook today.

-------------------------------
People often ask what types of criticisms of Israel legitimate are and what criticisms are not, so I'll post examples of each.

Legit type criticisms of Israel. They are based upon Israeli policies. Like every nation, its policies can be evaluated and criticized.

Examples:

* Israel's reckless expansion beyond the 1949 armistice lines is a strategic and moral error, imperiling its status as a Jewish and democratic state

* Arbitrary arrests of children in J+S/West Bank need to stop

* The IDF needs to do whatever it can to avoid and reduce collateral damage and unnecessary civilian deaths

* The return of the Jews to their ancestral homeland, while legitimate, was flawed in its execution

* Price tag attacks, kidnappings, etc are a crime

* Israel must address the concerns of the Ethiopian Jewish community
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shit criticisms of Israel. These are attempts to try to delegitimize the state of Israel and go nowhere. They may be good for trolling but no much else.

* The Jewish state is the root cause of all of the Middle East's problems and why the US is hated in the Middle East.

* The Jews should have set up a state in Germany/Poland/Argentina/the United States/Siberia instead. This also sometimes manifests itself as "Jews need to get the hell out of Palestine and go home to Germany, Poland, Russia, etc" (first of all, after centuries of telling them to 'go back to Palestine', it would be pretty obnoxious to tell Jews decades after the re-establishment of Israel that they need to leave again. How realistic would it have been for Jews to establish a state upon that continent after enduring two millennia of European racism?

* The Jews have been away from the Middle East for too long, so their indigenous status is null and void. They are white Europeans.

* Ashkenazi Jews are not really descended from the ancient Israelites, they are white Europeans who converted to Judaism (it is a blatantly obvious attempt to delegitimize Israel's existence by portraying Jewish returnees as "foreign colonial occupiers whose only connection to the land is religious")

* The Zionist lobby is hyper-powerful and controls the US government/the UN/the entire world (see: Protocols of the Elders of Zion)

* Israel is a settler colonial state built on land theft and colonization of the land's true indigenous people: the Palestinians - Jews are indigenous to Israel. Centuries spent in exile doesn't change that. The Palestinian refugee crisis is more complex: some were expelled, some left to avoid conflict before the war and some left out of fear during the war.

* Jews/Israelis are treating Palestinians the same way Nazis treated them. Israel are acting like Nazis.

* Israel is a white supremacist state, and Zionism is racism

* Jesus, Mary, Moses, King David, etc were Palestinians

* There was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem

your post is bullshit.

* The return of the Jews to their ancestral homeland, while legitimate, was flawed in its execution

was it legitimate? really?

and people calling out apaic dont necessarily believe in the protocols of zion.

also gerald kaufmann compared israel to nazis, and he is a jew that knew ww2. does it justify racists saying it? probably not, but you cant just act like he is a self hating jew either.



your post is bullshit because its full of strawmen.

 

[jeffk]

your post is bullshit.

* The return of the Jews to their ancestral homeland, while legitimate, was flawed in its execution

was it legitimate? really?

and people calling out apaic dont necessarily believe in the protocols of zion.

Yes it was a legitimate enterprise.

One can be critical of AIPAC and not believe in Protocols of Zion. I agree. There are people who think AIPAC controls the US gov't. As we just saw AIPAC was not able to get the US to veto this security council resolution. They do not hold as much power as some claim.

 

[Bob Charlie]

Why are you guys talking about Israel this thread is about how the Russian revolution was perpetrated by Khazaar Jews who thereby were able to perpetrate their plans for genocide against the whites! How Hitler knew about it and how he was protecting the whites from evil Jews. Haha these nazi retards with their bait and switch propaganda, it's the most sophomoric brain dead drivel imaginable. Also loving the group think narrative, I mean Jews are the aliens from Enders game after all. They think and act in concert from the Elders!

 

[Oiler]

a

One of the root causes of the impasse is that Israel (and you) view ending the occupation as "capitulation". And therefore its become a game of dick measuring and posturing to some degree. The reason this crisis hasn't been solved is because solving it requires an abundance of risk and magnanimity from all sides, but one side will surely have to sacrifice more. Palestinians are a broken people. Israel is a prosperous and militarily strong country with a vibrant economy, they can afford to take risks to save lives and make the grander gestures. Its only the petty mindedness of local politics (as displayed in the bold text above) and old grievances that prevent any real progress. Netanyahu is a small, petty man with a lot of ambition but no vision. And the Israeli people, bearing in mind their own history of dispossession and oppression, should really be quite ashamed at the callousness they display toward the Palestinians. Either way, Israel is free to make their own decisions, but I'd rather my tax $ not subsidize their crimes.

I suppose inconsistency on positions doesnt mean you are automatically wrong on this instant issue, but you do know that our tax dollars fund many countries engaged in objectionable behaviors, right? Do you research this? I know, i know, deflection...but the more you wear the white hat the more these questions become fair....i assume (if you live in the usa) you will not be deeding your property to native americans or writing reparation checks to BLM any time soon...

Anyway Dont place too much capital in my use of "capitulation" - it was in response to your apparent suggestion that israel should give up everything and not get anything back. Unless you dont feel this way....

Anyway, your "root cause" anaylsis, once again ignores a history of peace offers, and also ignores the terror attack issues.....

bottom line, for me, all sides have fault, and i wish there could be peace where no ones dick is made to feel short and families could exist and thrive. Palestinians and Israelis. Only very hateful ppl want subjugation and suffering.

 

[Oiler]

a

Its only the petty mindedness of local politics (as displayed in the bold text above) and old grievances that prevent any real progress..

Shit i missed this....the "bold text above" referred to the issue of a complete withdrawal and then terror attacks happen.....

You've really triviliazed death, suffering and terrorism here....you gotta reconsider this issue. Ethical issues aside, from a practial stand point, Many israelis would abandon support for hard liners if there was a reassurance that the violence was over...easy to tell people to take a chance when they are not your loved ones.

"Old grievances" ??? here is a list of RECENT attacks

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/victims.html#2016

And i know more palestinians have been killed, but you seem to really discount the effect of the terrorism

 

[JbModest]

Funny how most "shit criticism" examples are also true.

You really need to be a true shill to think otherwise

Then why don't you go back to where your family originally came from? Antarctica probably.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

What Finkelstein means by "more Jewish than Israelis" is that they're more hysterical and fanatical about their support for Israeli aggression. Apparently, even in Israel there is a large group of people that either outright oppose their state's aggression, or at least question it a little bit.

But the American, "warmongers from Martha's Vineyard"-type Jews are 100% behind it.

Again I am not sure that is true at all especially when we consider the fact that the Modern Orthodox in Israel are basically called 'Dati' and are known as the Religious Zionists and they are many of the settlers.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that Reform Jews are incredibly liberal and vote for politicians like Obama who are against Israeli settlement expansion.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/10/are-american-jews-turning-away-from-israel/


Also, what Martha Vineyard Jews are you talking about????

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Also, what Martha Vineyard Jews are you talking about????

Watch the Finkelstein clip I posted.

In fact, watch the entire documentary from where the clip comes from. It's really good.

(Don't worry, it's made by an Israeli Jew)

 

[Ice That Jaw]

Wow, this is the most ignorant post I've seen so far.
Israel is a country of immigrants you dumbass, it's a mixture of all kinds of different cultures, it's the last thing you can say about the country.

Well, I'm not sure promoting blood tests for official race acceptance is something that would get passed here but otherwise, they hadve a lot of Arabs now..Their Arabs are our Central Americans, so to speak.