Who Rickson Didn’t Face?

[xSTALKDEATHx]

Rickson did say in interviews that he would most certainly beat Don Frye, Mark Coleman, Rodrigo Nogueira, and Fedor.

He did not say he would beat Brock Lesnar and Tom Erikson.

He said he would fight Mark Kerr in his dojo

His brother said Rickson would be able to beat Vovchanchyn but Rickson himself mentioned nothing about that possibility.

His brother said Rickson would submit Matt Hughes but Rickson himself didn't.

His uncle said Rickson would have no chance against Mark Kerr on the ground due to size difference.

He declined an offer to fight Sakuraba for PRIDE 9 OR 10 citing he has no charisma.

I believe the reason he declined the sakuraba fight was because his son rockson died the same year they were supposed to fight. He said he stopped training for 3 years after his son’s death.

 

[Qen]

Wallid Ismael apparently challenged Rickson and Royce but only Royce accepted and Wallid choked him out pretty quick if I remember right.
Wallid was always underrated in my opinion ... and a little crazy.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

I believe the reason he declined the sakuraba fight was because his son rockson died the same year they were supposed to fight. He said he stopped training for 3 years after his son’s death.

Sakuraba challenged Rickson at PRIDE 8. That was in 1999. Rickson refused to accept the fight because "Sakuraba doesn't have any aura." (Note: "Aura" is the kind of word that Japanese people often use in their conversation. I think Rickson was reading prepared scripts)

In 2000, Rickson signed with new MMA event Colosseum and they gave him 3 opponents to choose from, Sakuraba, Funaki and Ogawa. Rickson without any hesitation picked Funaki, the weakest of the 3. (Rickson's official announcement had it he didn't choose Funaki but the promoter did for him.....which was an obvious lie)

After Funaki was choked and defeated, Rickson vs Ogawa was signed for the next event. Rockson died of drug overdose during the time leading up to Rickson vs Ogawa. Not Sakuraba.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Sakuraba vs Rickson was in the talks sometimes between Colosseum 1 and the death of Rockson although it wasn't part of public knowledge.

 

[cookdaddy]

Everyone you listed would have ruined him bad

Mark Kerr started in 1997 and would have done whatever he wanted

Mikhael Illukhine would have made him into a highlight real submission

Volk Han would have given him another Sambo loss to weasel out of

Those guys and the three guys I listed would have beaten him so soundly that I don't think they are worth discussing as legit opponents

I think his level of opponent was more like

Igor Zinoviev
Ensoun Inoue
Mario Sperry (maybe too hard for any Gracie)

Could he have beaten guys like that ?

Come on man. We both know Han and Ilyukhin would have been beaten soundly by Rickson. I agree both guys are very underrated but I don't think Rickson would have had too much trouble with either. You make it sound like they would tie Rickson into a knot and do what they wanted to him lmao.

 

[Reality]

Rickson fought between 1980 - 2000. The Gracie’s certainly considered him the best among them. Legends about him abound. No doubt, he was a badass. But who was fighting between 1980-1997 (we’ll call those his prime years) that Rickson did not fight that you believe either absolutely would have beaten him or probably would have or possibly could have.


Personally I think:

Coleman absolutely beats him.

Frank Shamrock, Tito Ortiz probably would have beaten him.

Sakuraba, Dan Henderson, Igor V., Don Frye, Oleg T. all could have beaten him.

Oh my, another thread of revisionist history and opinions!

Without modern record keeping we do not know who Rickson fought outside his official late career MMA stats, and the few publicized dojo fights (Anjo, Duarte x2, Zulu x2), with the latter obviously just a sample of who he fought. We know he did not turn down fights if he was challenged, and had a significant part in the Luta Livre wars. The late career he dominated against relatively less competition, though always impressive against multiple opponents a night, no scouting report, and all but one outweighing him by 20 to 100 pounds all finishes. No one does that if they were protecting a legacy. Funaki outweighed him by 20 ponds and was 11 years his junior.

So a few benchmarks must be used to measure by

1. Rickson always beats Royce, so whoever Royce beat, Rickson would beat.
Royce would have beaten Saku if it were a standard match (Rewatch the fight its true) but it went for 90 minutes and I won't spoil the reason for the outcome. Royce beat him in the rematch. If Royce does this, Rickson does it 10x better. So Saku looses to Rickson.

Royce beat Dan Severn (one of my favorite fights back in the day) Rickson beats him easily.

Royce beat Ken Shamrock, Ken Shamrock beat Bas Rutten, so Rickson is 10x better than Royce.

2. Look at his skills vs the opponents mentioned.
It has been said a good MMA fighter is a brown belt in everything. Rickson was/is Blackbelt level in obviously GJJ (not sport BJJ which is not always a good transition to MMA/NHB), but also Judo, Sambo, and amateur wrestling. He could also punch.

Mark Coleman was a killer but he was susceptible to someone who could catch him in a transition to the ground. Rickson's a master in the transition, and unparalleled on his back. Either a sub or a sweep, which Coleman would not survive with Rickson on top.

Henderson also had a lot of trouble with BJJ fighters in that time period. Henderson is not KO'ing Rickson and can't just out wrestle him. The more he tries the more he opens himself up.

Oleg - Rickson wrestles him and subs from top. Renzo beat Oleg, Rickson beats Renzo.

Tito - as good as Tito was, don't see him taking Rickson down. Standing Guillotine.

Don Frye - some say it would go like it did with Amaury Bitetti, but Frye won because Betetti could not take him down. Rickson's takedowns are much more dynamic and varied, it would have been unlikely if Frye would not have ended up on his back at some point. Rickson Gn'P from mount.

Frank Shamrock - would be a good fight, but Frank's strengths are also Rickson's strengths and Rickson was stronger.

Igor - Man Igor was solid! Low center of gravity, lightning quick thunderous hands. Outweighed Rickson by 20 pounds. Would have been good.

Of course, no gloves or hand wrappings, with no time limits I don't see Rickson in his prime losing to anybody. Its like he was designed to succeed in that form of combat.

 

[NHB7]

Oh my, another thread of revisionist history and opinions!

Without modern record keeping we do not know who Rickson fought outside his official late career MMA stats, and the few publicized dojo fights (Anjo, Duarte x2, Zulu x2), with the latter obviously just a sample of who he fought. We know he did not turn down fights if he was challenged, and had a significant part in the Luta Livre wars. The late career he dominated against relatively less competition, though always impressive against multiple opponents a night, no scouting report, and all but one outweighing him by 20 to 100 pounds all finishes. No one does that if they were protecting a legacy. Funaki outweighed him by 20 ponds and was 11 years his junior.

So a few benchmarks must be used to measure by

1. Rickson always beats Royce, so whoever Royce beat, Rickson would beat.
Royce would have beaten Saku if it were a standard match (Rewatch the fight its true) but it went for 90 minutes and I won't spoil the reason for the outcome. Royce beat him in the rematch. If Royce does this, Rickson does it 10x better. So Saku looses to Rickson.

Royce beat Dan Severn (one of my favorite fights back in the day) Rickson beats him easily.

Royce beat Ken Shamrock, Ken Shamrock beat Bas Rutten, so Rickson is 10x better than Royce.

2. Look at his skills vs the opponents mentioned.
It has been said a good MMA fighter is a brown belt in everything. Rickson was/is Blackbelt level in obviously GJJ (not sport BJJ which is not always a good transition to MMA/NHB), but also Judo, Sambo, and amateur wrestling. He could also punch.

Mark Coleman was a killer but he was susceptible to someone who could catch him in a transition to the ground. Rickson's a master in the transition, and unparalleled on his back. Either a sub or a sweep, which Coleman would not survive with Rickson on top.

Henderson also had a lot of trouble with BJJ fighters in that time period. Henderson is not KO'ing Rickson and can't just out wrestle him. The more he tries the more he opens himself up.

Oleg - Rickson wrestles him and subs from top. Renzo beat Oleg, Rickson beats Renzo.

Tito - as good as Tito was, don't see him taking Rickson down. Standing Guillotine.

Don Frye - some say it would go like it did with Amaury Bitetti, but Frye won because Betetti could not take him down. Rickson's takedowns are much more dynamic and varied, it would have been unlikely if Frye would not have ended up on his back at some point. Rickson Gn'P from mount.

Frank Shamrock - would be a good fight, but Frank's strengths are also Rickson's strengths and Rickson was stronger.

Igor - Man Igor was solid! Low center of gravity, lightning quick thunderous hands. Outweighed Rickson by 20 pounds. Would have been good.

Of course, no gloves or hand wrappings, with no time limits I don't see Rickson in his prime losing to anybody. Its like he was designed to succeed in that form of combat.

I’m accused of revisionist history? Your post is the definition of revisionist history. For one, the match with Royce went 90 mins because Royce asked for no time limit!!!

And you use MMA math?? If A beats B and B beats C then A beats C??..what a joke. It’s been disproven over and over and over.

I didn’t read the latter half of your post because your opening is so weak.

 

[Pierced7681]

Oh my, another thread of revisionist history and opinions!

Without modern record keeping we do not know who Rickson fought outside his official late career MMA stats, and the few publicized dojo fights (Anjo, Duarte x2, Zulu x2), with the latter obviously just a sample of who he fought. We know he did not turn down fights if he was challenged, and had a significant part in the Luta Livre wars. The late career he dominated against relatively less competition, though always impressive against multiple opponents a night, no scouting report, and all but one outweighing him by 20 to 100 pounds all finishes. No one does that if they were protecting a legacy. Funaki outweighed him by 20 ponds and was 11 years his junior.

So a few benchmarks must be used to measure by

1. Rickson always beats Royce, so whoever Royce beat, Rickson would beat.
Royce would have beaten Saku if it were a standard match (Rewatch the fight its true) but it went for 90 minutes and I won't spoil the reason for the outcome. Royce beat him in the rematch. If Royce does this, Rickson does it 10x better. So Saku looses to Rickson.

Royce beat Dan Severn (one of my favorite fights back in the day) Rickson beats him easily.

Royce beat Ken Shamrock, Ken Shamrock beat Bas Rutten, so Rickson is 10x better than Royce.

2. Look at his skills vs the opponents mentioned.
It has been said a good MMA fighter is a brown belt in everything. Rickson was/is Blackbelt level in obviously GJJ (not sport BJJ which is not always a good transition to MMA/NHB), but also Judo, Sambo, and amateur wrestling. He could also punch.

Mark Coleman was a killer but he was susceptible to someone who could catch him in a transition to the ground. Rickson's a master in the transition, and unparalleled on his back. Either a sub or a sweep, which Coleman would not survive with Rickson on top.

Henderson also had a lot of trouble with BJJ fighters in that time period. Henderson is not KO'ing Rickson and can't just out wrestle him. The more he tries the more he opens himself up.

Oleg - Rickson wrestles him and subs from top. Renzo beat Oleg, Rickson beats Renzo.

Tito - as good as Tito was, don't see him taking Rickson down. Standing Guillotine.

Don Frye - some say it would go like it did with Amaury Bitetti, but Frye won because Betetti could not take him down. Rickson's takedowns are much more dynamic and varied, it would have been unlikely if Frye would not have ended up on his back at some point. Rickson Gn'P from mount.

Frank Shamrock - would be a good fight, but Frank's strengths are also Rickson's strengths and Rickson was stronger.

Igor - Man Igor was solid! Low center of gravity, lightning quick thunderous hands. Outweighed Rickson by 20 pounds. Would have been good.

Of course, no gloves or hand wrappings, with no time limits I don't see Rickson in his prime losing to anybody. Its like he was designed to succeed in that form of combat.

You left out Ruas, I’m assuming on purpose?

 

[gono btw]

Oh my, another thread of revisionist history and opinions!

Without modern record keeping we do not know who Rickson fought outside his official late career MMA stats, and the few publicized dojo fights (Anjo, Duarte x2, Zulu x2), with the latter obviously just a sample of who he fought. We know he did not turn down fights if he was challenged, and had a significant part in the Luta Livre wars. The late career he dominated against relatively less competition, though always impressive against multiple opponents a night, no scouting report, and all but one outweighing him by 20 to 100 pounds all finishes. No one does that if they were protecting a legacy. Funaki outweighed him by 20 ponds and was 11 years his junior.

So a few benchmarks must be used to measure by

1. Rickson always beats Royce, so whoever Royce beat, Rickson would beat.
Royce would have beaten Saku if it were a standard match (Rewatch the fight its true) but it went for 90 minutes and I won't spoil the reason for the outcome. Royce beat him in the rematch. If Royce does this, Rickson does it 10x better. So Saku looses to Rickson.

Royce beat Dan Severn (one of my favorite fights back in the day) Rickson beats him easily.

Royce beat Ken Shamrock, Ken Shamrock beat Bas Rutten, so Rickson is 10x better than Royce.

2. Look at his skills vs the opponents mentioned.
It has been said a good MMA fighter is a brown belt in everything. Rickson was/is Blackbelt level in obviously GJJ (not sport BJJ which is not always a good transition to MMA/NHB), but also Judo, Sambo, and amateur wrestling. He could also punch.

Mark Coleman was a killer but he was susceptible to someone who could catch him in a transition to the ground. Rickson's a master in the transition, and unparalleled on his back. Either a sub or a sweep, which Coleman would not survive with Rickson on top.

Henderson also had a lot of trouble with BJJ fighters in that time period. Henderson is not KO'ing Rickson and can't just out wrestle him. The more he tries the more he opens himself up.

Oleg - Rickson wrestles him and subs from top. Renzo beat Oleg, Rickson beats Renzo.

Tito - as good as Tito was, don't see him taking Rickson down. Standing Guillotine.

Don Frye - some say it would go like it did with Amaury Bitetti, but Frye won because Betetti could not take him down. Rickson's takedowns are much more dynamic and varied, it would have been unlikely if Frye would not have ended up on his back at some point. Rickson Gn'P from mount.

Frank Shamrock - would be a good fight, but Frank's strengths are also Rickson's strengths and Rickson was stronger.

Igor - Man Igor was solid! Low center of gravity, lightning quick thunderous hands. Outweighed Rickson by 20 pounds. Would have been good.

Of course, no gloves or hand wrappings, with no time limits I don't see Rickson in his prime losing to anybody. Its like he was designed to succeed in that form of combat.

Zulu x 2 were not dojo fights... Official fights, even though quite controversial...

 

[lukeuidswords]

Frank Shamrock would've split Rickson's wig badly, different universe of athleticism and speed and knowledge on the feet

Takada rocked Rickson with a knee in their 2nd fight

 

[Hotora86]

The you have it, nice and clear.
Bas challenges Rickson.
Rickson... ducks.

 

[gono btw]

Frank Shamrock would've split Rickson's wig badly, different universe of athleticism and speed and knowledge on the feet

Takada rocked Rickson with a knee in their 2nd fight

Different courses at that time... The Frank who was still learning the game in Pancrase would have been schooled by Rickson (who was already too old and out of his physical prime).

Now the Frank who KO slammed Zinovied was already a different animal... By then, Rickson was already a grand-pa...

 

[lukeuidswords]

Different courses at that time... The Frank who was still learning the game in Pancrase would have been schooled by Rickson (who was already too old and out of his physical prime).

Now the Frank who KO slammed Zinovied was already a different animal... By then, Rickson was already a grand-pa...

He still went on to fight a borderline paraplegic Funaki for the payday tho

 

[gono btw]

He still went on to fight a borderline paraplegic Funaki for the payday tho

2 grandpas...

 

[lukeuidswords]

2 grandpas...

The bottom line with Rickson, is, unfortunately, as the Rocky Marciano of MMA, as opposed to the Ali. His resume is just so impossibly sparse and it doesn't at all stand up to his legacy. I love Choke. I watch it all the time. I don't hate the guy, even though he's obviously an insane narcissist, but his career is incredibly frustrating as what it is, rather than what it could've been.

 

[gono btw]

The bottom line with Rickson, is, unfortunately, as the Rocky Marciano of MMA, as opposed to the Ali. His resume is just so impossibly sparse and it doesn't at all stand up to his legacy. I love Choke. I watch it all the time. I don't hate the guy, even though he's obviously an insane narcissist, but his career is incredibly frustrating as what it is, rather than what it could've been.

He should have fought Ruas, would have been different, for real..

 

[Aberlour]

Rickson did say in interviews that he would most certainly beat Don Frye, Mark Coleman, Rodrigo Nogueira, and Fedor.

.

About 10% chance he beats any of those. His ego was / is bigger than his achievements.

 

[Pierced7681]

Different courses at that time... The Frank who was still learning the game in Pancrase would have been schooled by Rickson (who was already too old and out of his physical prime).

Now the Frank who KO slammed Zinovied was already a different animal... By then, Rickson was already a grand-pa...

I remember frank getting schooled on the ground by Renzo in strikeforce, Jeremy horn in ufc, and Allan goes in pancrase.

Rickson would have beat him.

 

[eiyuu]

frank shamrock would have beaten him easily! frank in his prime was the best in his division

I dunno about that. Frank couldn't beat Renzo and Rickson is def better than Renzo.

 

[gono btw]

I remember frank getting schooled on the ground by Renzo in strikeforce, Jeremy horn in ufc, and Allan goes in pancrase.

Rickson would have beat him.

Horn is pretty big for someone like Frank...

The Allan Goes fight is GOAT fight, very competitive