Who did you have winning Canelo Alvarez vs. GGG 2?

[Shoemaker]

"The ability of a boxer to dictate the pace, style and tactics of a bout vis-a-vis his opponent."

There's the definition of ring generalship. Find where it says "fighter who stands in the center".

Took you that long to construct a straw man?

 

[B0mbSquad]

Took you that long to construct a straw man?

A strawman would be misconstruing your argument. You're going off about ring generalship. There you go.

 

[Shoemaker]

A strawman would be misconstruing your argument. You're going off about ring generalship. There you go.

You are absolutely misconstruing my point. It is about ring generalship, that much you got right. But you’re simplifying my reason for giving that to Canelo. Debate in good faith or not, I don’t really have to entertain your hissy fit over Golovkin losing if you keep it up though.

 

[Seano]

"The ability of a boxer to dictate the pace, style and tactics of a bout vis-a-vis his opponent."

There's the definition of ring generalship. Find where it says "fighter who stands in the center".

Canelo was clearly the ring general in the rematch and for many rounds of the first fight as well.

 

[B0mbSquad]

You are absolutely misconstruing my point. It is about ring generalship, that much you got right. But you’re simplifying my reason for giving that to Canelo. Debate in good faith or not, I don’t really have to entertain your hissy fit over Golovkin losing if you keep it up though.

And your entire basis for addressing me is to cry over a now-clarified generalization. GGG won the second half of the fight convincingly. There. The only meat of your posts is as follows: "you said this but then said this" and "RiNg genErALshiP". At least understand how the criteria is defined before basing your point on it.

 

[B0mbSquad]

Canelo was clearly the ring general in the rematch and for many rounds of the first fight as well.

Standing flat footed in the center of the ring is not control its stubbornness.

 

[Seano]

Standing flat footed in the center of the ring is not control its stubbornness.

Being backed up and worked over isn't ring generalship either. The pace and style of the second fight was clearly dictated by Canelo. Its absurd to argue otherwise.

 

[B0mbSquad]

Being backed up and worked over isn't ring generalship either. The pace and style of the second fight was clearly dictated by Canelo. Its absurd to argue otherwise.

If a fighter is being backed up, he is being put against the ropes and directed around the ring. If a fighter moves to avoid incoming punches, it's footwork. That's really simple stuff.

But tell me more about how the more stationary fighter who threw less punches is the one who dictated the pace. By that argument, Canelo also dictated the pace in the first fight because his refusal to engage resulted in fewer total punches for both men. GGG fought the same way in both, Canelo simply stood his ground in the second bout.

 

[Seano]

If a fighter is being backed up, he is being put against the ropes and directed around the ring. If a fighter moves to avoid incoming punches, it's footwork. That's really simple stuff.

But tell me more about how the more stationary fighter who threw less punches is the one who dictated the pace. By that argument, Canelo also dictated the pace in the first fight because his refusal to engage resulted in fewer total punches for both men. GGG fought the same way in both, Canelo simply stood his ground in the second bout.

Its possible to be the ring general backing up, not when you're being backed up. Canelo showed strong ring generalship in both fights with different styles. Golovkin did a better job of it in the first one than the second, enough to make it a close fight.

 

[B0mbSquad]

Its possible to be the ring general backing up, not when you're being backed up. Canelo showed strong ring generalship in both fights with different styles. Golovkin did a better job of it in the first one than the second, enough to make it a close fight.

Canelo back pedaling and fighting on the ropes is ring generalship, but GGG pivoting, probing, and firing with volume is "being backed up". Ok.

The first fight wasn't that close. A clear victory for GGG marred by boxing's most notorious blemish: Judging. It wasn't just ring generalship that was superior on behalf of GGG, Canelo lacked the work rate or Cardio win enough rounds. But that's a sidebar.

 

[Seano]

Canelo back pedaling and fighting on the ropes is ring generalship, but GGG pivoting, probing, and firing with volume is "being backed up". Ok.

The first fight wasn't that close. A clear victory for GGG marred by boxing's most notorious blemish: Judging. It wasn't just ring generalship that was superior on behalf of GGG, Canelo lacked the work rate or Cardio win enough rounds. But that's a sidebar.

No, obviously the rounds where Golvokin was able to catch Canelo and land on him, he was winning that criteria. Canelo had a lot of rounds where he used the ring to his advantage and outboxed Golovkin as well, in the first fight.

 

[B0mbSquad]

No, obviously the rounds where Golvokin was able to catch Canelo and land on him, he was winning that criteria. Canelo had a lot of rounds where he used the ring to his advantage and outboxed Golovkin as well, in the first fight.

I agree that there is more than one way to be the ring general. I disagree that Canelo was backing up GGG. If you have somebody backing up, they end up on the ropes. Canelo stood his ground, and looked to box on the inside. The fight didn't take place on the inside and he did not push GGG to any part of the ring GGG didn't want to go to. He did not set the pace of the fight. It's hard to score him being the ring general in either bout.

 

[Shoemaker]

And your entire basis for addressing me is to cry over a now-clarified generalization. GGG won the second half of the fight convincingly. There. The only meat of your posts is as follows: "you said this but then said this" and "RiNg genErALshiP". At least understand how the criteria is defined before basing your point on it.

I haven’t been generalizing, you have. I’ve just been giving you just enough rope to hang yourself with your own rhetoric. And I understand the criteria well, this “I’ll just say the same things to Shoe that he’s saying to me” schtick is obvious.

Canelo was the one dictating where the fight took place more often than not. Canelo didn’t just stand in the middle of the ring - he held it by forcing Golovkin back - and he did this by initiating the action.

It worked because Golovkins tools when moving backward are jab, and that’s it. He was able to jab Canelo in those instances but it wasn’t enough for him to stop Canelo from asserting himself and maintaining control of where the fight happens.

Canelo doesn’t want Golovkin on the ropes (and quite frankly doesn’t have the footwork to cut it off - but pushing someone to the ropes =/= ring generalship either), it’s the other way around. Golovkin is the fighter that likes cornering his opponents and despite his efforts he could never reliably control where and when the action happened. If you don’t believe me, you could at least believe the guy who crafted the game plan that was being stifled. Abel has admitted Golovkin wasn’t doing what they wanted in there.

 

[B0mbSquad]

I haven’t been generalizing, you have. I’ve just been giving you just enough rope to hang yourself with your own rhetoric. And I understand the criteria well, this “I’ll just say the same things to Shoe that he’s saying to me” schtick is obvious.

Canelo was the one dictating where the fight took place more often than not. Canelo didn’t just stand in the middle of the ring - he held it by forcing Golovkin back - and he did this by initiating the action.

It worked because Golovkins tools when moving backward are jab, and that’s it. He was able to jab Canelo in those instances but it wasn’t enough for him to stop Canelo from asserting himself and maintaining control of where the fight happens.

Canelo doesn’t want Golovkin on the ropes (and quite frankly doesn’t have the footwork to cut it off - but pushing someone to the ropes =/= ring generalship either), it’s the other way around. Golovkin is the fighter that likes cornering his opponents and despite his efforts he could never reliably control where and when the action happened. If you don’t believe me, you could at least believe the guy who crafted the game plan that was being stifled. Abel has admitted Golovkin wasn’t doing what they wanted in there.

Abel wants Golovkin to fight like JCC. GGG isn't JCC. Canelo likes to stalk his opponents, he never stalked GGG. He did maintain the center of the ring. He was never stalked by GGG outside of brief instances in the later rounds. I don't see Canelo as being the aggressor. He held his ground but he didn't push the fight.

 

[GolovkinGOAT]