Opinion What happened to freedom of speech in the UK? (Long read)

[MayhemMonkey]

Lie means
"noun. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood."

An opinion cannot be a falsehood, since it's an opinion.

but if the person truly believes it even though it is a lie(such as religion) then it is most certainly an opinion. Freedom of speech covers lies, its literally why America is the land of snake oil

 

[It-is-what-it-is]

but if the person truly believes it even though it is a lie(such as religion) then it is most certainly an opinion. Freedom of speech covers lies, its literally why America is the land of snake oil

Dude there are statements of fact, and there are statements of opinions.

You're mixing the 2 up.

If you say "im 6ft 5" that is a statement of fact. It's a false one because you're a 5ft 3 manet ,but it's a statement of fact. Doesnt matter if you believe your own lie that you 6'5 , that's not an opinion , it's a delusion.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Dude there are statements of fact, and there are statements of opinions.

You're mixing the 2 up.

If you say "im 6ft 5" that is a statement of fact. It's a false one because you're a 5ft 3 manet ,but it's a statement of fact. Doesnt matter if you believe your own lie that you 6'5 , that's not an opinion , it's a delusion.

but both are considered speech. if you are an absolutist you must defend someones right to lie

 

[glenwo2]

Nope. And this is where things get even crazier with these "hate speech" laws. You don’t have to provide any proof. As long as the victim or a passers-by or a police officer (who wasnt even there at the time of the incident) perceives that there was a "hate incident".

.
It even says this in the met police website "A hate incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender.

Not all hate incidents will amount to criminal offences, but it is equally important that these are reported and recorded by the police.

Evidence of the hate element is not a requirement. You do not need to personally perceive the incident to be hate related. It would be enough if another person, a witness or even a police officer thought that the incident was hate related."

.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/what-is-hate-crime/


.
You don’t even need to provide evidence in 2018, they're like "innocent until proven guilty? Nahh fuck that shit" "due process?get that shit outta my face I got hurt feelings to protect"

Sounds like a textbook Thoughtcrime law.

disgraceful.

 

[glenwo2]

I'm an open micer (beginner level stand up comedian), and my favourite kind of jokes are edgy jokes, comedians like anthony jeselnik, frankie boyle are examples of edgy comics for reference.

I like to make an edgy joke every now and then when I go on stage, but recently I found out this was ILLIGAL. I went into a rabbit hole and found a bunch of cases where people got arrested for making jokes that were edgy, and it was hard to believe, but it's true. Here's some examples:

1. Count dankula, and the nazi pug joke video:
Count dankula is a youtube comedian , he makes funny videos and was fairly unknown before he uploaded this video. Basically he turned his dog into a nazi to troll his girl.

Anyway the video went viral, and later he got arrested for "communicating a grossly offensive message" via the Internet. He got charged and convicted with a "hate crime" FOR A JOKE. You might not think it's funny but who in their right mind would want to send people to prison for a joke?


He was ordered to pay a fine of £800 ($1023 for you americans) which he refused to pay as a matter of principle and for his right to free expression.
Anyway he's probably gonna get sent to prison for refusing to pay the fine. All for an edgy joke mind you.

..


2. Ross loraine, edgy twitter joke:
Here's the story. https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/23/glasgow-crash-tweet_n_6371428.html

ross loraine 19 at the time, made a joke on twitter about a crash that happened the same day. It was a bin lorry (garbage truck for the Americans) that crashed into 100 people out shopping. That's when he wrote on twitter : "So a bin lorry has apparently driven in 100 people in Glasgow eh, probably the most trash it's picked up in one day" offended people called the police on him, there was a warrant for his arrest , but he handed himself in and accepted a caution from the police. FOR A JOKE.


..

3. The grenfell tower joke:

This is the most recent one I could find. Basically about a year ago a residentical tower was on fire and it was all over the news here in the uk, some people died , some injured and it was a big deal at the time. Anyway a year later 5 guys make a joke youtube video about it, where they make a joke of the fire by putting a cardboard building on a bonfire and mimicking screaming people jumping off the windows. They also got arrested few weeks ago and who knows if they're gonna go to prison or what. All for an edgy joke.

..

There's probably bunch of these that I'm not aware of thousands of people get arrested for offensive tweets or edgy Internet communications in general every year. And this isn't only limited to the Internet, it's also irl communication , a guy got arrested for telling a police officer his horse was gay, and that's a true story
.
https://metro.co.uk/2005/06/08/arrested-for-gay-horse-jibe-590815/

There are actual laws that make it illigal to say anything "grossly offensive" be it through the Internet or any other medium of communication.
In the communications act 2003 where
"Section 127 of the act makes it an offence to send a message that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character over a public electronic communications network." That's just an example of one of them.

..
So all that brings us here, where I'm trying to mind my own business and tell jokes to people in comedy clubs so that hopefully one day I can make a career out of this, but i don't feel safe doing the jokes I want tell after finding out about all this , I even made a Facebook post about it in a comedians Facebook group and when comedians read that I was making edgy jokes they were outraged, almost no comedian agreed with me and the rest were busy commenting insults because they were offended that I said I make edgy jokes.

What the fuck?! Like srsly I'm just trying to tell jokes, even the comedians who need free speech more than anyone were completely for the idea of arresting people who make edgy jokes.
.
The overwhelming majority of comedians are die hard liberals here in the uk which might explain why they disagreed with me so strongly. Since somehow free speech went from being a left wing issue to a right wing issue and so they were being libtards pushing against the apparently right wing idea of freedom of speech. Personally im not left wing, I'm not right wing I don't really get involved in politics and never vote because I don't really care. But I do care about being able to tell jokes without the threat of getting arrested because I offended someone by a joke.
What happened to free expression in the uk?
And how can we change the laws so I can go all out with my edgy material?

Share your thoughts on the matter.

Here's the problem :

You're living in the UK.

There's no such thing as Freedom Of Speech there like there is here (even though here in the States, it's not all a bed of roses either).


And I have to wonder just how successful "comedians" over there really are when they can't even make one edgy joke without getting arrested?

I bet their PC jokes are so dry, bland, and not funny, people either fall asleep, leave before the standup is over, or just plain not show up and stay home.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Well from my understanding you are still free to tell those jokes you just can't broadcast them via an electronic communication network?

Something needs to be done in those regards because the concept of freedom of speech comes from a different time.
Today a video or post can be directed directly at the people that suffered from the tragedy.
Imagine being a dad that has lost his children in that fire.
That person or victims being protected from people that take joy out of other peoples misery is more important than those guys being able to make the video.
Of course, you would have to apply common sense. I don't see anything wrong with the Nazi dog. Considering how much "Nazi humor" there already is.
But calling victims of truck accident trash or making fun of burning children should not be considered freedom of speech.
You are just doing that to take joy out of other peoples misery.

I certainly don't feel bad for comedians. You are not telling edgy jokes what you are doing is trying to make money off people's misery.
Which is even worse.

Stay away from comedy, please and everyone like yourself.

 

[It-is-what-it-is]

but both are considered speech. if you are an absolutist you must defend someones right to lie

Dude you just refuse to read the definition don't you?

Free speech is "the right to express any OPINION without censorship or restraint"

Google it, check the Oxford dictionary.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

And I have to wonder just how successful "comedians" over there really are when they can't even make one edgy joke without getting arrested?

name a single comedian that has been prosecuted in the UK??

and dont mention that Dankula twat, he's not a comedian.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Dude you just refuse to read the definition don't you?

Free speech is "the right to express any OPINION without censorship or restraint"

Google it, check the Oxford dictionary.

but if that opinion is a lie, but the person believes it to be true its still an opinion. What are you not understanding about this?

 

[glenwo2]

Dude you just refuse to read the definition don't you?

Free speech is "the right to express any OPINION without censorship or restraint"

Google it, check the Oxford dictionary.

As aggravated as I am with our Govt constantly fucking us over for decades, I still am glad I was born in this country (U.S.A.) that has the Consitution (1st Amendment) 'cause the alternatives (being born overseas in other countries) are apparently worse.

 

[It-is-what-it-is]

name a single comedian that has been prosecuted in the UK??

and dont mention that Dankula twat, he's not a comedian.

Here's the problem :

You're living in the UK.

There's no such thing as Freedom Of Speech there like there is here (even though here in the States, it's not all a bed of roses either).


And I have to wonder just how successful "comedians" over there really are when they can't even make one edgy joke without getting arrested?

I bet their PC jokes are so dry, bland, and not funny, people either fall asleep, leave before the standup is over, or just plain not show up and stay home.

I'm not aware of any stand up comedians being prosecuted for telling jokes, and we have a few edgy comics here like frankie boyle and jimmy carr that seem to get away with it.

People have been prosecuted for jokes plenty though just look at the examples in the Op, just not stand up comedias as far as I'm aware.

Maybe because they have a large following and the government doesn't want to cause an outrage from their fans idk.

 

[RockstarChris]

I'm an open micer (beginner level stand up comedian), and my favourite kind of jokes are edgy jokes, comedians like anthony jeselnik, frankie boyle are examples of edgy comics for reference.

I like to make an edgy joke every now and then when I go on stage, but recently I found out this was ILLIGAL. I went into a rabbit hole and found a bunch of cases where people got arrested for making jokes that were edgy, and it was hard to believe, but it's true. Here's some examples:

1. Count dankula, and the nazi pug joke video:
Count dankula is a youtube comedian , he makes funny videos and was fairly unknown before he uploaded this video. Basically he turned his dog into a nazi to troll his girl.

Anyway the video went viral, and later he got arrested for "communicating a grossly offensive message" via the Internet. He got charged and convicted with a "hate crime" FOR A JOKE. You might not think it's funny but who in their right mind would want to send people to prison for a joke?


He was ordered to pay a fine of £800 ($1023 for you americans) which he refused to pay as a matter of principle and for his right to free expression.
Anyway he's probably gonna get sent to prison for refusing to pay the fine. All for an edgy joke mind you.

..


2. Ross loraine, edgy twitter joke:
Here's the story. https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/23/glasgow-crash-tweet_n_6371428.html

ross loraine 19 at the time, made a joke on twitter about a crash that happened the same day. It was a bin lorry (garbage truck for the Americans) that crashed into 100 people out shopping. That's when he wrote on twitter : "So a bin lorry has apparently driven in 100 people in Glasgow eh, probably the most trash it's picked up in one day" offended people called the police on him, there was a warrant for his arrest , but he handed himself in and accepted a caution from the police. FOR A JOKE.


..

3. The grenfell tower joke:

This is the most recent one I could find. Basically about a year ago a residentical tower was on fire and it was all over the news here in the uk, some people died , some injured and it was a big deal at the time. Anyway a year later 5 guys make a joke youtube video about it, where they make a joke of the fire by putting a cardboard building on a bonfire and mimicking screaming people jumping off the windows. They also got arrested few weeks ago and who knows if they're gonna go to prison or what. All for an edgy joke.

..

There's probably bunch of these that I'm not aware of thousands of people get arrested for offensive tweets or edgy Internet communications in general every year. And this isn't only limited to the Internet, it's also irl communication , a guy got arrested for telling a police officer his horse was gay, and that's a true story
.
https://metro.co.uk/2005/06/08/arrested-for-gay-horse-jibe-590815/

There are actual laws that make it illigal to say anything "grossly offensive" be it through the Internet or any other medium of communication.
In the communications act 2003 where
"Section 127 of the act makes it an offence to send a message that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character over a public electronic communications network." That's just an example of one of them.

..
So all that brings us here, where I'm trying to mind my own business and tell jokes to people in comedy clubs so that hopefully one day I can make a career out of this, but i don't feel safe doing the jokes I want tell after finding out about all this , I even made a Facebook post about it in a comedians Facebook group and when comedians read that I was making edgy jokes they were outraged, almost no comedian agreed with me and the rest were busy commenting insults because they were offended that I said I make edgy jokes.

What the fuck?! Like srsly I'm just trying to tell jokes, even the comedians who need free speech more than anyone were completely for the idea of arresting people who make edgy jokes.
.
The overwhelming majority of comedians are die hard liberals here in the uk which might explain why they disagreed with me so strongly. Since somehow free speech went from being a left wing issue to a right wing issue and so they were being libtards pushing against the apparently right wing idea of freedom of speech. Personally im not left wing, I'm not right wing I don't really get involved in politics and never vote because I don't really care. But I do care about being able to tell jokes without the threat of getting arrested because I offended someone by a joke.
What happened to free expression in the uk?
And how can we change the laws so I can go all out with my edgy material?

Share your thoughts on the matter.

i hope your jokes are not as long as your threads

*drummroll*

 

[MayhemMonkey]

I'm not aware of any stand up comedians being prosecuted for telling jokes, and we have a few edgy comics here like frankie boyle and jimmy carr that seem to get away with it.

People have been prosecuted for jokes plenty though just look at the examples in the Op.

Maybe because they have a large following and the government doesn't want to cause an outrage from their fans idk.

no its because they are fucking professionals and its their job to be edgy. Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr love to push boundaries and as you say, they are still walking free.

 

[RockstarChris]

Most of my jokes are observational humor.

You see these people running to the store to buy water before a hurricane when it is about to rain 5 feet of water on them

i mean they are running around screaming after the hurricane that they need water. there is literally water everywhere

they should be thanking the hurricane for all this water because then they can save money on buying water and buy a starbucks coffee or some cigs

hurricanes work better than our government they never shut down

----------------------------------------------------------------

I can literally go all day with jokes on any subject but i am terrified of public speaking. maybe i can be a ghostrider joker for you TS.

 

[glenwo2]

I'm not aware of any stand up comedians being prosecuted for telling jokes, and we have a few edgy comics here like frankie boyle and jimmy carr that seem to get away with it.

People have been prosecuted for jokes plenty though just look at the examples in the Op.

Maybe because they have a large following and the government doesn't want to cause an outrage from their fans idk.

Okay but this sets a dangerous precedence that has to worry more Comedians there.

And I'm talking about Comedians that are just getting started in their career. They always need to do or say something that would set them apart and thus have a large following and become "Professionals" that Monkey-face mentioned, otherwise they'll remain largely unnoticed. Yet if they went "edgy", they're placing themselves at risk of jail-time which is pure lunacy.

The dank guy said it best :

"For any comedians in Britain, be very, very worried about making jokes in future because the context and intent behind them apparently don’t matter any more."

 

[It-is-what-it-is]

but if that opinion is a lie, but the person believes it to be true its still an opinion. What are you not understanding about this?

"But if that opinion is a lie" stop right there.
A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. An opinion is an expression of a person's feelings that cannot be proven. Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

no its because they are fucking professionals and its their job to be edgy. Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr love to push boundaries and as you say, they are still walking free.

People really need to get over policing other people's speech.

Especially in comedy. This is the road to librarians taking the black marker to literature deemed upsetting.

We can't let the most sensitive in the population dictate what can and can't be uttered or published.

 

[RockstarChris]

no its because they are fucking professionals and its their job to be edgy. Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr love to push boundaries and as you say, they are still walking free.

Sometimes people have avatars that i just stare at for like 30 seconds. Bravo

 

[MayhemMonkey]

People really need to get over policing other people's speech.

Especially in comedy. This is the road to librarians taking the black marker to literature deemed upsetting.

We can't let the most sensitive in the population dictate what can and can't be uttered or published.

completely agree especially in comedy. But when random goons try to claim themselves as comedians to gain some protection just to be a cunt, I dont really care if they get a fine for it. People get fines for having loads of different shit. Playing music too loud can get you a fine for anti-social behaviour. etc.

 

[RockstarChris]

Jerry Seinfeld said a couple years ago he quit doing comedy because he cant do comedy anymore because people cant take a joke. Jerry Seinfeld is a jewish non smoking non drinking non drug using comedian.

Even the perfect comedian cant win. TS just go smash some watermelons.