Was Ali vs Foreman an early stoppage in retrospect?

mozfonky said:
yeah, that shit was gold, thanks for the laugh. I like how he called christy martin "ragin cow" now that takes the fucking cake. Seriously though, George like many boxers just ain't good with words, but they are smart. George was very cunning and his own best manager, he conned the whole country and the sport into a second championship, he just can't fucking talk. Joe Frazier is my favorite example, just couldn't speak proper english to save his life, just as country as he wanted to be but he was very intelligent, if you can look past the things that were imprinted by his background you could tell he was a very smart man.
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You see this a bit with Hopkins, as well. Smart as can anyone in the game but not overly eloquent.
 
No Mas said:
66-68, 67-70, 66-69 all in favor of Ali is Foreman's way of winning every round?
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where'd you get those scores? I've been looking for them for years, I always thought ali won most of the rounds and the ones he didn't he just gave away. The whole "rope a dope" thing took on a myth all it's own. Ali was whipping ass from the git go.
 
JayElectra said:
You see this a bit with Hopkins, as well. Smart as can anyone in the game but not overly eloquent.
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definitely, in fact what kind of "intelligence" would you rather have, a brain you were born with or a civil, educated environment which may help you get through life even if you're an imbecile. I often say, I've been around all kinds of people of all kinds of educational and economic backgrounds and the lawyers, doctors etc.., are really not much smarter in my estimation than most of the rest, they really aren't. The best boxers are usually above average in intelligence whether it shows up on an iq test or not, being smart is one factor in being a great fighter.
 
mozfonky said:
definitely, in fact what kind of "intelligence" would you rather have, a brain you were born with or a civil, educated environment which may help you get through life even if you're an imbecile. I often say, I've been around all kinds of people of all kinds of educational and economic backgrounds and the lawyers, doctors etc.., are really not much smarter in my estimation than most of the rest, they really aren't. The best boxers are usually above average in intelligence whether it shows up on an iq test or not, being smart is one factor in being a great fighter.
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Certainly.
 
No Mas said:
66-68, 67-70, 66-69 all in favor of Ali is Foreman's way of winning every round?
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This, Foreman landed some big shots in isolation but the difference in handspeed was readily apparent throughout.

There was no way Foreman was going to turn it around going down the stretch and win a decision, his only hope was a big shot but there was a sense that Ali had taken his best.

Foreman's ego was large at that point, I don't think he wanted to get up to take a barrage whilst being talked down to.

If you watch the "When we were Kings" documentary/film you get a different impression of the fight than if you watch it as a sports broadcast.
 
I just watched the fight today for the first time, and I also do not understand the stoppage? It was stopped on 8. You can say the Ali would have finished him anyways, but you don't know that for sure. When the fight was called the round was over, so Foreman would have had some recovery time between rounds.

Nothing against Ali obviously .... I'm sure he would have gone on to finish Foreman in the next round ...but still. Rules are rules and the rules say that a fighter gets til 10 to recover. If you're gonna bend rules, maybe in a rural trivial bout, but not for the HW championship of the world.

Maybe people let it slide because they wanted Ali to win.

I am curious ---- did Foreman or his camp ever protest after the fight?
 
jayfedorlegend said:
I just watched the fight today for the first time, and I also do not understand the stoppage? It was stopped on 8. You can say the Ali would have finished him anyways, but you don't know that for sure. When the fight was called the round was over, so Foreman would have had some recovery time between rounds.

Nothing against Ali obviously .... I'm sure he would have gone on to finish Foreman in the next round ...but still. Rules are rules and the rules say that a fighter gets til 10 to recover. If you're gonna bend rules, maybe in a rural trivial bout, but not for the HW championship of the world.

Maybe people let it slide because they wanted Ali to win.

I am curious ---- did Foreman or his camp ever protest after the fight?
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I always thought the ref saw it in Foreman's eyes and made the judgement call. Foreman was done but it could have went on a little bit more.
 
Foreman was down for the whole count. The ring ref only counted 8 sec, but the outside ref gave him the right count before he started. He was down about 12 sec.
 
Foreman sort of beat the count ,I guess,but he didn't really have anything left.
 
It wouldn't have made a difference either way because it was more exhaustion than being hurt. He wasn't going to recover from it like he could from a regular knockdown. He totally shot his wad, he was done. Ali would have knocked him out again if they let him go on.
 
jayfedorlegend said:
I just watched the fight today for the first time, and I also do not understand the stoppage? It was stopped on 8. You can say the Ali would have finished him anyways, but you don't know that for sure. When the fight was called the round was over, so Foreman would have had some recovery time between rounds.

Nothing against Ali obviously .... I'm sure he would have gone on to finish Foreman in the next round ...but still. Rules are rules and the rules say that a fighter gets til 10 to recover. If you're gonna bend rules, maybe in a rural trivial bout, but not for the HW championship of the world.

Maybe people let it slide because they wanted Ali to win.

I am curious ---- did Foreman or his camp ever protest after the fight?
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foreman did, yes, I think he also accussed, or rather insinuated that he was poisoned too. I think he was pointing to his cornerman, dick sadler, who was seen buddying it up with ali not too long later. I don't think that's the case, Sadler knew Ali since he was 18, was going to be his trainer but couldn't deal with the craziness, in later years he told Angelo that he deserved a medal for handling Ali. Funny thing, lots of people who met Ali in the early years genuinely thought he was insane or at least touched.

Anyway, foreman, rightly in my opinion, criticized the count. I've timed it and it's barely 10 seconds but that has little to do with it, Zack Clayton seemed to rush the last couple numbers making sure foreman wouldn't beat the count. Would it have made a difference? no, ali fucked his head up so bad and he was so exhausted that Ali would have done what he wanted with him from then on. Foreman was obsessed by that loss and probably still is, it's amazing what he accomplished. not to many fighters who lose their way, and i'm talking his next several fights where he struggled simply because he lost his faith, most fighters like that never come back, in fact, i can't think of any.
 
also, eddie futch blocked clayton from reffing the thrilla in manila because of the foreman fight. Probably a good decision, Ali, if he could get away with it, would have held frazier.
 
JayElectra said:
With all respect to Big George, he says a lot of stupid shit. I loved when he commentated, though. When Larry and George took jabs at each other I couldn't stop laughing. I'm sure he's not necessarily stupid, though, considering all the money he's made (maybe he is just very, very lucky).

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Lmao, when George told Larry "Once you have one boxing match you can tell me"

Fuck that video made me nostalgic. Really brought back memories of me me being a kid and watching HBO boxing with my dad. Thanks for posting this
 
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